Design a new CAP-distinctive Uniform

[lordmonar]

But that is my whole point.

Choice or not.......we have members in two different sets of unfiorms.  Corporates and USAF style.

The USAF will not allow some of our members (20-40% is my guess) to wear the USAF style.  Another 10% or so do not wish to wear USAF style uniforms for one reason or another.

So long as we have two uniform choices we will always look like a motley crew IMHO.  We need to eliminate on of those uniform choices.

My personal preference is to come to some sort of agreement with the USAF to get everyone into an USAF style uniform.  But that is just not going to happen.

Another option is to force those who don't meet USAF standards out of CAP.  However loosing 30-50% of our members will seriously hurt our ability to do the mission.

The only viable option IMHO is to move everyone into some sort of corporate uniform and do away with the USAF style uniforms.  We may loose some members over this move, but I feel that we could afford to loose these people because they are in CAP for the play acting and not the mission. (this is only directed to those who say they will quit CAP if they can't wear their USAF style uniforms....not to those who simply pefer the USAF unfiorms....such as myself)

Of course one final option is keep the status quo and talke the hit that comes from not having a single uniform.

I don't really care which uniform we go with (before the NEC I thought we would eliminate the gray and whites and go CSUs) but we really need to get everyone into one set of uniforms.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Order: 
1.  Original Grays  (What we have now)
2.  Modified Grays (charcoal gray pants) w/flight cap        Modified Grays (charcoal gray pants) w/ solid black tie & flight cap
3.  Grays Service Coat (LAPD Blue) w/ Flight Cap      Grays Service Coat (LAPD Blue) w/ Service Hat
1.
2.
*** Above pics edited to include black belt at suggestion of CAPTalk members ***

3.

For comparison of colors on monitors (color on your monitor may differ from actual color, but able to discern color diferences in this sample)


YEAH - Finally figured out how to post images!!!!  Thanks to kd8ga for handling this for me in the past.

[High Speed Low Drag]

But that is my whole point.
The only viable option IMHO is to move everyone into some sort of corporate uniform and do away with the USAF style uniforms.  We may loose some members over this move, but I feel that we could afford to loose these people because they are in CAP for the play acting and not the mission. (this is only directed to those who say they will quit CAP if they can't wear their USAF style uniforms....not to those who simply pefer the USAF unfiorms....such as myself)

Thank you lordmonar.  That is how I feel, but I couldn't figure out how to not upset those that have stated "Give me my AF-style uniform or give me death!"  But you have a very valid point and I agree.  But to do that, we HAVE to have a military-style uniform.  And unless the AF forces the issue by yanking the AF-style from the seniors, this will be a very hard sell, which is why I suggested we go to dual unifroms first, then over time possibly phase out the AF style.  But during that time, this uniform would give those that CAN'T wear the AF-Style a uniform they can be proud to be in.

I do think that the cadets need to maintain the AF unifrom - period.  All the senior members that have the AF-style uniforms would be able to donate them to the cadet programs.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Order: 
1.  Original Grays  (What we have now)
2.  Modified Grays (charcoal gray pants) w/flight cap        Modified Grays (charcoal gray pants) w/ solid black tie & flight cap
3.  Grays Service Coat (LAPD Blue) w/ Flight Cap      Grays Service Coat (LAPD Blue) w/ Service Hat

I'm not digging the blue belt on gray pants...

[High Speed Low Drag]

I'm not digging the blue belt on gray pants...

OK.  What do you recommend? 
Right now the regs say "Any type black belt with conservative buckle."

[Eclipse]

The above uniform would fulfill the need for 100% of the membership, is reasonable, military in cut yet clearly distinctive from the USAF, and very sharp.  It also allows for a transition by those already wearing the whites at little to no cost.

Smarty-pants comments about its chances aside, I would support adoption.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm not digging the blue belt on gray pants...

OK.  What do you recommend? 
Right now the regs say "Any type black belt with conservative buckle."

I'm not sure if there are charcoal gray belts, but that or a black would be better than blue.

Blue looks good on blue pants, not gray. In fact, I've compared it with some pants I have, and it's a horrid combination IMO.

[NC Hokie]

I'm not digging the blue belt on gray pants...

OK.  What do you recommend? 
Right now the regs say "Any type black belt with conservative buckle."

I'm not sure if there are charcoal gray belts, but that or a black would be better than blue.

Blue looks good on blue pants, not gray. In fact, I've compared it with some pants I have, and it's a horrid combination IMO.

Vanguard stocks black belts with silver hardware in their Navy section.

[Strick]

Take the grey rank slides off and put pin on rank and it would look good.   

[Hawk200]

We may loose some members over this move, but I feel that we could afford to loose these people because they are in CAP for the play acting and not the mission.

I have a polo, and wear it on occasion for the simple fact that it's inexpensive and easy. But I wouldn't hang around for the simple fact that I'm not going to buy any more uniforms. As for "acting", I've been doing the "real" acting for 21 years. I'm not, and haven't been, "playing" when it comes to CAP. Maybe once I'm done with the military, I'll try the State Guard. I'm sure that I can pass on some military experience there.

There's a certain irony that those with CSUs feel wronged by it's elimination, but would support eliminating another and forcing other members to buy something else. Why is it good for the goose, but not the gander?

But I guess that it's more important to have a self contained organization. No one to answer to, no one telling the corporation how to dress. There's a bigger problem here, and it's not the uniform.

[High Speed Low Drag]

The black belt with silver hardware would look good. - Great idea guys.  I'll update the pics

[High Speed Low Drag]

*** Pics posted earlier today have been edited to include the black belt recommended in the above listed posts ****

[RiverAux]

There's a certain irony that those with CSUs feel wronged by it's elimination, but would support eliminating another and forcing other members to buy something else. Why is it good for the goose, but not the gander?

Thats exactly what has been bugging me. 

[High Speed Low Drag]

There's a certain irony that those with CSUs feel wronged by it's elimination, but would support eliminating another and forcing other members to buy something else. Why is it good for the goose, but not the gander?

Thats exactly what has been bugging me.

The elimination of the CSU and the expansion of the Gray/Whites was not necessarily about the "wronging" of CAP members, it highlighted the issue of uniform availability for SMs who do not meet H/W.  Which is why we are working so hard to create a uniform equitable to the AF-style.   I do happen to think that we do need to go to one uniform – but that can be planned well enough in advance so the SMs wearing the AF-style uniform will "wear-out" those uniforms and plan on purchasing CAP uniforms instead of AF uniforms to replace them.

That is why in my earlier posts, I suggested we have a dual uniform for now while working towards just one uniform.  It is to help prevent "forcing" SMs to have to pony up a large amount of money when they have uniforms that aren't worn out.
But we do need to move the SMs away from AF-Style if we hope to be able to decreasing all of the uniform issues of the past few years.

[Eclipse]

There's a certain irony that those with CSUs feel wronged by it's elimination, but would support eliminating another and forcing other members to buy something else. Why is it good for the goose, but not the gander?

Thats exactly what has been bugging me.

First, no one is "forced" to buy anything - most members aren't aware or acknowledge the 39-1 requirement for all seniors to have a version of the service dress.

This has nothing to do with sticking it to anyone, and raising the issue just muddies the effort.

This is about once and for all stabilizing and standardizing our dress so its actually "uniform" while meeting the mission requirements for 100% of the membership (which neither the USAF nor the corporates do today).

[lordmonar]

There's a certain irony that those with CSUs feel wronged by it's elimination, but would support eliminating another and forcing other members to buy something else. Why is it good for the goose, but not the gander?

Thats exactly what has been bugging me.

The point I am trying to move to is a single uniform.

Right now there are people with only USAF style, CSU style, Gray and whites or the Polo and nothing else.

Any move we make to go to a single uniform will force some to buy new uniforms.  Sorry....that is just the way it is. 

To mitigate that situation I suggest we go with the lowest cost solution for the "new" uniform.  The gray and white uniform fits this bill.   Those with CSUs only have to buy new pants, those in the Polo catagory only have to buy a shirt.  It is the USAF style wearers who have to foot the biggest bill.

But we are only looking at around $50 for slacks and aviator shirt.  Not a huge cost compared to some of the suggestions on this thread.

[NCRblues]

So, I'm going to ask this question out of wonder. I am not trying to be rude or battle your uniform "opinions". Some of you speak as if there IS going to be a new uniform. Where did you get this idea from? Is this based in some obscure fact or rumor, or is this just an exercise here on cap talk? Like I said just wondering.

[Major Carrales]

So, I'm going to ask this question out of wonder. I am not trying to be rude or battle your uniform "opinions". Some of you speak as if there IS going to be a new uniform. Where did you get this idea from? Is this based in some obscure fact or rumor, or is this just an exercise here on cap talk? Like I said just wondering.

I have pointed this fact out several times.  Assumption and speculations is a great exercise, however, we should not proceed as if this were "real world."

My suggestion on standardized gray pants through coordination, which has met some resistance, is something that can be done.  I say let us begin there.

[Gunner C]

What is the percentage of SM that don't meet the standard to wear the AF uniform? As I see it CAP doesn't need a new uniform, but rather eliminate several of the so called corporate uniforms. The polo shirt and grey pants is not a uniform, it's something you were to play golf in. Most squadrons have a supply of surplus AF uniforms that could issue blue pants to seniors meaning they only need to purtchase the white aviator shirt. Wear that with grey slides and you have a standard uniform for seniors. You'll never get all seniors in the same uniform. You'll always have SM in the AF uniform or something else called a corporate uniform or different versions of the corporate uniform. Or those to lazy to put on a uniform correctly that wearr the flight suit when the nearest corporate aircraft is 50 miles away. Pick one of the existing CAP uniforms plus the AF uniform and you just about have standardized uniforms for seniors.

On this poll:  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8907.msg160668#msg160668

The percentage of overweight members is around 48%; not a scientific poll but it's a sample of over 100 members.  That's pretty substantial.

[ZigZag911]

Moving every senior member to a single corporate uniform is a good idea, one whose time may be at hand.

It ought to be done gradually; from what I understand, NB won't consider any uniform changes till 2011 -- which gives those interested plenty of time to coordinate a reasonable presentation of their proposal.

Personally, I like the three gray "combinations" - tieless, with tie, with jacket.

Is there a commercial source for the gray jacket, flight cap & service cap?

IF this idea can win approval, we ought to allow a fairly long 'phase out' for USAF style uniform, precisely to avoid the sudden shock that accompanied doing away with CSU.
I am suggesting 5 years. Granted not all blues would be worn out by then, but they will have had a reasonable service life.

Yes, this could mean keeping the two track uniform system till 2018 or 2019...but it will achieve the goal of FINALLY getting CAP seniors back in a single uniform