My BBDU experiment: after two years, I be done with this nonsense

[Shuman 14]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

While I like khaki, and I see the historical link to CAP's very beginning in it, I'm open to suggestions.

If you don't like khaki, and you recognize that the USAF style will not work for everyone... what do you suggest CAP adopt as a single corporate uniform that keeps it's USAF link, recognizes it's history and would be acceptable to all members?

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

My motive is simply to stimulate discussion... and... I appreciate the hard work CAP does and want you all to look professional in one uniform while doing it.

[Shuman 14]

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

Bandwidth intersecting boredom.

That and being a royal pain in LTC Eclipse's forth point of contact. 

[Shuman 14]

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

Bandwidth intersecting boredom.

And that's why I didn't bother answering his question.

More like you don't have an answer... I'm just saying. 

[Eclipse]

That and being a royal pain in LTC Eclipse's forth point of contact.

That's "Lt Col", as pointed out, CAP is not the Army.

[Shuman 14]

That and being a royal pain in LTC Eclipse's forth point of contact.

That's "Lt Col", as pointed out, CAP is not the Army.

But I thought you said rank was meaningless in CAP? 

Seriously I'm just playing Sir... hope your Turkey Day weekend was grand.

[Eclipse]

I know, me too.

Turkey was great - 4 days in the garage workshop tinkering, watching some football and learning to weld.

Much worse ways to spend a holiday.

[spaatzmom]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

While I like khaki, and I see the historical link to CAP's very beginning in it, I'm open to suggestions.

If you don't like khaki, and you recognize that the USAF style will not work for everyone... what do you suggest CAP adopt as a single corporate uniform that keeps it's USAF link, recognizes it's history and would be acceptable to all members?

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

My motive is simply to stimulate discussion... and... I appreciate the hard work CAP does and want you all to look professional in one uniform while doing it.

Well I must say that in the 14 years I have been in the CAP family and going to numerous events from squadron meetings to National Conferences and everything in between, I have seen very few members that could be deemed as looking unprofessional and they were taken aside by their proper chain of command and informed of such.  The biggest problem with your want is that looking professional is extremely subjective.  What you may decide is unprofessional looking may be a bit over zealous in someone else's opinion.  Given your membership status you are doubtful to get much support or traction as it seems more like you are dissing not only the general membership but the organization as a whole.

[Shuman 14]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

While I like khaki, and I see the historical link to CAP's very beginning in it, I'm open to suggestions.

If you don't like khaki, and you recognize that the USAF style will not work for everyone... what do you suggest CAP adopt as a single corporate uniform that keeps it's USAF link, recognizes it's history and would be acceptable to all members?

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

My motive is simply to stimulate discussion... and... I appreciate the hard work CAP does and want you all to look professional in one uniform while doing it.

Well I must say that in the 14 years I have been in the CAP family and going to numerous events from squadron meetings to National Conferences and everything in between, I have seen very few members that could be deemed as looking unprofessional and they were taken aside by their proper chain of command and informed of such.  The biggest problem with your want is that looking professional is extremely subjective.  What you may decide is unprofessional looking may be a bit over zealous in someone else's opinion.  Given your membership status you are doubtful to get much support or traction as it seems more like you are dissing not only the general membership but the organization as a whole.

What I'm "dissing" is the second class caste system that CAP has for those members that don't meet the requirements (height/weight and/or shaving) to wear the USAF Style uniform.

What I'm "dissing" is the heterogeneous look of a CAP formation with a crazy mix of White/Grey, USAF Blue, Polo shirts, BBDUs and BDUs and possibly ABUs. "Uniformity" does not exist and provides an unprofessional appearance.

What I'm suggesting is ONE (1) corporate uniform to replace all others for the Senior Membership. One Dress, One Service, One Flying, One Field uniform.

What I'm recommending is a Khaki uniform, which is the historical color of CAP uniforms, which is martial in appearance yet NOT military.

As I've outlined before is a modern, off the shelf, poly/rayon blend khaki colored uniform to which enough USAF Blue highlights (IE Blue Flight Caps, Combination Caps, Ties, Necktabs, belts, NCO chevrons, rank slides, and Nametags) to continue a visible link to the USAF but have a CAP distinctive Corporate Uniform that will not confuse a Senior Member for an actual USAF Officer to the public at large.  More importantly, it will be a uniform that all can wear and be part of the same team.

Now, I say "recommend" because I'm open to suggestions... I like khaki, if you have a better idea, put it out there and lets discuss it, I'm open to hear any and all thoughts.

[spaatzmom]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

While I like khaki, and I see the historical link to CAP's very beginning in it, I'm open to suggestions.

If you don't like khaki, and you recognize that the USAF style will not work for everyone... what do you suggest CAP adopt as a single corporate uniform that keeps it's USAF link, recognizes it's history and would be acceptable to all members?

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

My motive is simply to stimulate discussion... and... I appreciate the hard work CAP does and want you all to look professional in one uniform while doing it.

Well I must say that in the 14 years I have been in the CAP family and going to numerous events from squadron meetings to National Conferences and everything in between, I have seen very few members that could be deemed as looking unprofessional and they were taken aside by their proper chain of command and informed of such.  The biggest problem with your want is that looking professional is extremely subjective.  What you may decide is unprofessional looking may be a bit over zealous in someone else's opinion.  Given your membership status you are doubtful to get much support or traction as it seems more like you are dissing not only the general membership but the organization as a whole.

What I'm "dissing" is the second class caste system that CAP has for those members that don't meet the requirements (height/weight and/or shaving) to wear the USAF Style uniform.

What I'm "dissing" is the heterogeneous look of a CAP formation with a crazy mix of White/Grey, USAF Blue, Polo shirts, BBDUs and BDUs and possibly ABUs. "Uniformity" does not exist and provides an unprofessional appearance.

What I'm suggesting is ONE (1) corporate uniform to replace all others for the Senior Membership. One Dress, One Service, One Flying, One Field uniform.

What I'm recommending is a Khaki uniform, which is the historical color of CAP uniforms, which is martial in appearance yet NOT military.

As I've outlined before is a modern, off the shelf, poly/rayon blend khaki colored uniform to which enough USAF Blue highlights (IE Blue Flight Caps, Combination Caps, Ties, Necktabs, belts, NCO chevrons, rank slides, and Nametags) to continue a visible link to the USAF but have a CAP distinctive Corporate Uniform that will not confuse a Senior Member for an actual USAF Officer to the public at large.  More importantly, it will be a uniform that all can wear and be part of the same team.

Now, I say "recommend" because I'm open to suggestions... I like khaki, if you have a better idea, put it out there and lets discuss it, I'm open to hear any and all thoughts.

Again you as a Patron have absolutely no say in this matter.  So you like khaki we get that.  Unless and until you become a full fledged member you are just kicking dirt in the faces of those who actually go out and do the menial jobs like running the squadrons, groups, wings, and national levels.  You have decided to present a solution to a "problem" that most do not perceive as monumental as you do.  Given the vast range in sizes, ages, and other things one uniform for all is a pipe dream.  Do yourself a favor and let it go, it is not worth the uptake in your blood pressure especially since you have no real dog in the fight.  Your horse has been beaten to death mainly by you.  I am resolved to accept that you only want to stir the pot and divide not offer anything better  in other words a troll.

[Panache]

Again you as a Patron have absolutely no say in this matter. 

What I find interesting is that some people sure like exerting energy and effort at attacking the messenger (in this case, shuman14) instead of the message.  So what, he's a patron member?  How does that make one iota of difference?  The question is still valid.

Meanwhile, some here, like myself and CyBorg, who are active CAP members working in the trenches with the local squadrons ask the exact same question.  So far, the question is unanswered.  The last couple of replies have been dedicated to attacking shuman14's worthiness.

You might want to step back and reflect on that.

[Shuman 14]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

While I like khaki, and I see the historical link to CAP's very beginning in it, I'm open to suggestions.

If you don't like khaki, and you recognize that the USAF style will not work for everyone... what do you suggest CAP adopt as a single corporate uniform that keeps it's USAF link, recognizes it's history and would be acceptable to all members?

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

My motive is simply to stimulate discussion... and... I appreciate the hard work CAP does and want you all to look professional in one uniform while doing it.

Well I must say that in the 14 years I have been in the CAP family and going to numerous events from squadron meetings to National Conferences and everything in between, I have seen very few members that could be deemed as looking unprofessional and they were taken aside by their proper chain of command and informed of such.  The biggest problem with your want is that looking professional is extremely subjective.  What you may decide is unprofessional looking may be a bit over zealous in someone else's opinion.  Given your membership status you are doubtful to get much support or traction as it seems more like you are dissing not only the general membership but the organization as a whole.

What I'm "dissing" is the second class caste system that CAP has for those members that don't meet the requirements (height/weight and/or shaving) to wear the USAF Style uniform.

What I'm "dissing" is the heterogeneous look of a CAP formation with a crazy mix of White/Grey, USAF Blue, Polo shirts, BBDUs and BDUs and possibly ABUs. "Uniformity" does not exist and provides an unprofessional appearance.

What I'm suggesting is ONE (1) corporate uniform to replace all others for the Senior Membership. One Dress, One Service, One Flying, One Field uniform.

What I'm recommending is a Khaki uniform, which is the historical color of CAP uniforms, which is martial in appearance yet NOT military.

As I've outlined before is a modern, off the shelf, poly/rayon blend khaki colored uniform to which enough USAF Blue highlights (IE Blue Flight Caps, Combination Caps, Ties, Necktabs, belts, NCO chevrons, rank slides, and Nametags) to continue a visible link to the USAF but have a CAP distinctive Corporate Uniform that will not confuse a Senior Member for an actual USAF Officer to the public at large.  More importantly, it will be a uniform that all can wear and be part of the same team.

Now, I say "recommend" because I'm open to suggestions... I like khaki, if you have a better idea, put it out there and lets discuss it, I'm open to hear any and all thoughts.

Again you as a Patron have absolutely no say in this matter.  So you like khaki we get that.  Unless and until you become a full fledged member you are just kicking dirt in the faces of those who actually go out and do the menial jobs like running the squadrons, groups, wings, and national levels.  You have decided to present a solution to a "problem" that most do not perceive as monumental as you do.  Given the vast range in sizes, ages, and other things one uniform for all is a pipe dream.  Do yourself a favor and let it go, it is not worth the uptake in your blood pressure especially since you have no real dog in the fight.  Your horse has been beaten to death mainly by you.  I am resolved to accept that you only want to stir the pot and divide not offer anything better  in other words a troll.

"on the Laptop... trolling is my Business... and business is good." 

[Shuman 14]

Again you as a Patron have absolutely no say in this matter. 

What I find interesting is that some people sure like exerting energy and effort at attacking the messenger (in this case, shuman14) instead of the message.  So what, he's a patron member?  How does that make one iota of difference?  The question is still valid.

Meanwhile, some here, like myself and CyBorg, who are active CAP members working in the trenches with the local squadrons ask the exact same question.  So far, the question is unanswered.  The last couple of replies have been dedicated to attacking shuman14's worthiness.

You might want to step back and reflect on that.

Thank you.

[Eclipse]

They've all been asked and answered 100 times.

Khaki, gray, blue, whatever.  Wasted breath.

[Panache]

They've all been asked and answered 100 times.

Khaki, gray, blue, whatever.  Wasted breath.

Yet the problem is still outstanding.  So, we just give up?

[spaatzmom]

They've all been asked and answered 100 times.

Khaki, gray, blue, whatever.  Wasted breath.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[SarDragon]

[Panache]

They've all been asked and answered 100 times.

Khaki, gray, blue, whatever.  Wasted breath.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

And that just reinforces my belief that the "haves" are quite happy with relegating the "have nots" to second-class status and will resist any effort to change their privileged status.

[Eclipse]

"Haves?"

[Storm Chaser]

They've all been asked and answered 100 times.

Khaki, gray, blue, whatever.  Wasted breath.

Yet the problem is still outstanding.  So, we just give up?

No, we work it through the proper channels.

That said, while resolving the diversity/disparity of uniforms is important, there are more pressing issues in CAP. Those relating to membership/manning levels, training, equipment and mission accomplishment/relevance come to mind.

[abdsp51]

"Haves?"

Probably those that can wear the AF style who are compliant with H/W and grooming willfully.