ABU's???

[AngelWings]

It is time to look like we are the USAF Aux, not USAF wannabes. AFJROTC wears subdued insignia and regular Patrol Caps, so why shouldn't we?

Keep in mind that the color of our tapes isn't up to us. If you want an answer to that, you need to find someone in the Air Force that is responsible for that particular configuration and get the answer from them. No one with CAP knows the true answer at present.

Yes, there are things about being significantly different in low light conditions, but the why is not presently known. (And I'm talking the legitimate "why" not the hearsay.)

Yeah, that is 100 percent true, it is frustrating though. I think it does more harm than good. I wonder who it is, now that you bring it up.

[AngelWings]

I agree with you in principle.....but we do have to consider the USAF's supposed need to keep us distinctive.

Comparing us with AFJROTC is a little different because their cadets are not wearing Col's Birds.

Thats a good point, but I do think that a cadet will typically look different than a AD, Guard, or Reserve Airman. I think that there is alot of concerns about things that can happen, but not about things that happened or are happening (like us wearing Blue Tapes and looking stupid).

[Майор Хаткевич]

I agree with you in principle.....but we do have to consider the USAF's supposed need to keep us distinctive.

Comparing us with AFJROTC is a little different because their cadets are not wearing Col's Birds.

Thats a good point, but I do think that a cadet will typically look different than a AD, Guard, or Reserve Airman. I think that there is alot of concerns about things that can happen, but not about things that happened or are happening (like us wearing Blue Tapes and looking stupid).

My last year at an Encampment as a Cadet, I was older than some of the Navy recruits doing the real deal. Depending on the size and bearing, a cadet can easily be confused with someone on AD, Guard or Reserve duty.

[lordmonar]

Well....that the real sticking point with any discussion on our level about CAP uniforms.

With out clear guidance from the USAF about their wants, needs, fears or concerns....it is a lot of wheel spinning.

[zonaman]

With out clear guidance from the USAF about their wants, needs, fears or concerns....it is a lot of wheel spinning.

IMHO the Air Force is a professional military service that knows exactly what they want. If the AF can't manage something small like CAP uniforms they would probably be hurting in other areas, and the "grey area confusion" may be coming from CAP HQ. OR I could be totally wrong and this really is an AF issue or joint AF, CAP issue.

Ether way I think CAP needs to (insert comment here) and go to the AF and say this this is the uniform want will you approve it? But what do I know other than just hearsay, maybe HQ does that. I don't work there.

[lordmonar]

Well as a 22 year veteran and a current USAF defense contractor....I know that the USAF can have issues with manageing both the small stuff and the large stuff.

Either way.....what I said stands.....with out clear guidance, beyond speculation, we can suggest a lot of thing but it may all just be an exercise in futility.

[Smokey]

I don't have too much heartache with blue tapes, although I would prefer something else.  But WHY does it have to be ultramarine blue???!!!

That color went out with advocado kitchen appliances and disco.  Navy Blue would be much better.

[zonaman]

A while back someone had a picture of a uniform that had grey tapes with white (or off white) lettering as a possability. It didn't look half bad. Or am I trying to bring back to life a dead horse?

[BrianH76]

I don't have too much heartache with blue tapes, although I would prefer something else.  But WHY does it have to be ultramarine blue???!!!

That color went out with advocado kitchen appliances and disco.  Navy Blue would be much better.

Personally, I'm fine with what we've already got.  However, if we switch to something else, it should be a color that can be worn with all utility uniforms (ABU, BDU, BBDU).  The corporate uniform and its unique nametags created a lot of confusion among members.  For some reason, Vanguard still sells these items, and I still see cadets showing up to activities wearing the two-line corporate nametag with the AF Service Uniform.  We don't need a similar situation with our utility uniforms.  Keep it simple.

[Grumpy]

I don't have too much heartache with blue tapes, although I would prefer something else.  But WHY does it have to be ultramarine blue???!!!

That color went out with advocado kitchen appliances and disco.  Navy Blue would be much better.

Personally, I'm fine with what we've already got.  However, if we switch to something else, it should be a color that can be worn with all utility uniforms (ABU, BDU, BBDU).  The corporate uniform and its unique nametags created a lot of confusion among members.  For some reason, Vanguard still sells these items, and I still see cadets showing up to activities wearing the two-line corporate nametag with the AF Service Uniform.  We don't need a similar situation with our utility uniforms.  Keep it simple.

The horse has been invented.  Why reinvent it?  People talk about saving money but seems like every two years or so (little exaggeration there) we have to start investigating new uniforms.  Wouldn't money spent on aircraft and other equipment be put to better use?

I can remember using the blue tape since 1959 when I first joined.  It works.

[titanII]

Personally, I'm fine with what we've already got.

+1
We look enough like the AF in BDU's. Why switch?

[MIKE]

Your argument is short sighted and fails to consider that the BDU may not be around forever.  Consider if we were still wearing OG 107s today instead of switching to BDUs in the early '90s. 

[BrianH76]

Personally, I'm fine with what we've already got.

+1
We look enough like the AF in BDU's. Why switch?

I wasn't suggesting we stick with BDUs.  We're part of the AF and should wear what the AF wears.  I was referring to the color of nametapes.  If, after a switch to a new uniform, we adopt a new color of nametapes, we should adopt a color that can be worn with both the ABU and the BBDU. 

[ol'fido]

Personally, I'm fine with what we've already got.

+1
We look enough like the AF in BDU's. Why switch?

I wasn't suggesting we stick with BDUs.  We're part of the AF and should wear what the AF wears.  I was referring to the color of nametapes.  If, after a switch to a new uniform, we adopt a new color of nametapes, we should adopt a color that can be worn with both the ABU and the BBDU.

This argument/opinion/ suggestion has made more laps on CT this year than NASCAR. Not dumping on you specifically but I'm saying.....

[Hawk200]

However, if we switch to something else, it should be a color that can be worn with all utility uniforms (ABU, BDU, BBDU).  The corporate uniform and its unique nametags created a lot of confusion among members.  For some reason, Vanguard still sells these items, and I still see cadets showing up to activities wearing the two-line corporate nametag with the AF Service Uniform.  We don't need a similar situation with our utility uniforms.  Keep it simple.

Hey, who are you? You can't be coming in here making sense and all that stuff. Someone could fry a brain cell over things like that! 

Humor aside, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't see why we need different nametags for everything. I'd like to see a brushed silver with "Civil Air Patrol" below the name (for everyone, add mini rank to it for the blazer), the standard three line nameplate for all shirts/blouses (make the cadet one blue if they absolutely must differentiate one for cadets). Quick, easy, and less to worry about. No other nametags authorized. Uniformity.

[titanII]

Your argument is short sighted and fails to consider that the BDU may not be around forever.  Consider if we were still wearing OG 107s today instead of switching to BDUs in the early '90s.

I agree that it is short-sighted, but what is the hurry? ABUs almost just got put into place. CAP started wearing BDUs in the 90's while the RM was wearing woodland camo in Vietnam.
And I would be fine if we were still wearing OG 107s. A little wondering why we weren't "getting with the times" maybe. But not clamoring for a new utility uniform.

[RiverAux]

CAP started wearing BDUs in the 90's while the RM was wearing woodland camo in Vietnam.

There was some tiger stripe, but I've never seen or heard of the woodland camo pattern found in the BDUs since the early 1980s being used in Vietnam. 

[Thom]

CAP started wearing BDUs in the 90's while the RM was wearing woodland camo in Vietnam.

There was some tiger stripe, but I've never seen or heard of the woodland camo pattern found in the BDUs since the early 1980s being used in Vietnam.

The M81 Woodland BDU camo pattern is a very slight modification of the ERDL leaf pattern which became standard issue for USMC troops by 68, and was issued to a large contingent of Army troops by the 69-70 timeframe. After the withdrawal of Army troops from Vietnam in 73 the Army changed back to OD green fatigues until the advent of the BDU in 81, while the USMC continued to utilize some camo of the ERDL leaf pattern through the 70s. (I'm not sure what the USAF was doing during that time...)

So, lots of folks wore the ERDL/Woodland BDU pattern camo in Vietnam, though the OD fatigues and relatively less common Tiger Stripe are better remembered. Possibly due to the more unlimited press coverage of the earlier years of the war, with the public becoming less interested and less tolerant, and thus less likely to watch significant film coverage of the troops, in the later years when the ERDL camo became common.


Thom

[Hawk200]

CAP started wearing BDUs in the 90's while the RM was wearing woodland camo in Vietnam.

I can't speak for the other branches, but I know for a fact that Air Force general issue for the BDU wasn't until October 1988. I shipped to basic on 14 November that year, and they had just started issuing BDUs to basic trainees in October. The field jacket I was issued in Basic was green because the Air Force hadn't obtained them yet.

[titanII]

Thom knows what I was talking about. I was speaking of the ERDL pattern used in Vietnam, which evolved into the pattern we know and love today on BDU's. I wasn't saying that BDU's were used in Vietnam. Just that a similar woodland camouflage pattern was.