ABU's???

[DakRadz]

Why is something so simple has a uniform phase in getting so complicated. It cost money, it needs some time to allow people to get them, there has to be a policy carry over on the wear of ABU's, what is so complicated with it. I know funds are real tight, but that wouldn't be too complicated to go out and say is the official reason we are not getting ABU's right now.

There's nothing complicated about it.

When the AF says we can go ahead anytime we want, NHQ (after CAP governing body approval) could put out an ICL with the uniform and patch locations. That's it. Nothing more to it.

Aye, sahr, simple enough.

But if ya' please, don be enc'ragin' NHQ to publish more ICLs. A new manual would be mighty 'ppreciated.

Sorry, set my browser to Pirate again....

[RiverAux]

According to a presentation given at the NEC the uniform committee is working on a revision of the corporate uniform regulations for submission for NB review (presumably soon).  They have started work on a review of AF-style uniform regulations with expectation of CAP switching from BDUs to ABUs. 

[RiverAux]

According to a presentation given at the NEC the uniform committee is working on a revision of the corporate uniform regulations for submission for NB review (presumably soon).  They have started work on a review of AF-style uniform regulations with expectation of CAP switching from BDUs to ABUs.

Sort of surprised there weren't any comments on this given that it is the first specific statement we've heard that CAP is probably going to request ABUs. 

[tsrup]

Was there any other information in that presentation or any way that we can see it?

It didn't appear to be on the November NEC agenda.

[Ned]

There is really anything to see yet.  The NUC has been tasked with a pretty big job and is moving methodicallty and carefully through it.  Initially, it developed recommendations for the corporate-style uniforms.  Now it is working on USAF-style uniforms and is reviewing and considering recommendations for - among other things - ABUs.  A little like CAPTalk, the NUC members have differing opinions on the possibility of recommending adoption of ABUs and are currently discussing and debating the issue.  It is not yet clear how the NUC will come down on the issue.  Our conference calls are filled with the same issues discussed so passionately here - things like costs to members, distinctiveness, whether or not or USAF partners are likely to appove a given recommendation, whether we should wait for the "uniform after ABU," etc.

And remember, once the NUC settles on recommendations, the recommendations will have to go to the NB for further debate and possible action.  The NB may adopt all, some, or none of the NUC's recommendations.  The NB may substitute some or all of their own recommendations.

And when and if a package is approved, it will have to go to the USAF.  Who undoubtedly will have to perform their own staff analysis which will take some time.  And they may approve all, some , or none of any package we submit.

So the process is underway.  But given all of the multiple approval processes, there is no significant chance of seening changes to USAF-style uniforms for many, many months.

If not a year or more.

Ned Lee
Member of many committees, including the NUC.

[tsrup]

thanks Ned,

your insight is much appreciated.

[RADIOMAN015]

  But given all of the multiple approval processes, there is no significant chance of seeing changes to USAF-style uniforms for many, many months.

If not a year or more.

Ned Lee
Member of many committees, including the NUC.

Hopefully the Air Force will slow roll this for a long time.  Of course for the adult members that love to play "military dress up", this will be very frustrating :angel:.    It's too bad the leadership in CAP can't understand the importance of having only one very distinctive field uniform that everyone can wear, so that when we as an organization when performing "Missions for America" there will be absolutely no doubt to anyone observing these activities that this is the CIVIL Air Patrol :angel:   Look to the American Red Cross as an example of distinctive "no doubt" uniform wear in any media photos or videos.

Surely many members are facing some economic challenges, and hopefully other changes to CAP specific uniforms will not cost the members more money in order to participate in CAP activities

BTW thanks for your hard work and providing information :clap:
RM 

[AngelWings]

  But given all of the multiple approval processes, there is no significant chance of seeing changes to USAF-style uniforms for many, many months.

If not a year or more.

Ned Lee
Member of many committees, including the NUC.

Hopefully the Air Force will slow roll this for a long time.  Of course for the adult members that love to play "military dress up", this will be very frustrating :angel:.    It's too bad the leadership in CAP can't understand the importance of having only one very distinctive field uniform that everyone can wear, so that when we as an organization when performing "Missions for America" there will be absolutely no doubt to anyone observing these activities that this is the CIVIL Air Patrol :angel:   Look to the American Red Cross as an example of distinctive "no doubt" uniform wear in any media photos or videos.

Surely many members are facing some economic challenges, and hopefully other changes to CAP specific uniforms will not cost the members more money in order to participate in CAP activities

BTW thanks for your hard work and providing information :clap:
RM

I guess the whole USAF Auxiliary thing means nothing to you. It is like you'd have a police academy with everyone dressed has a surgeons.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

  But given all of the multiple approval processes, there is no significant chance of seeing changes to USAF-style uniforms for many, many months.

If not a year or more.

Ned Lee
Member of many committees, including the NUC.

Hopefully the Air Force will slow roll this for a long time.  Of course for the adult members that love to play "military dress up", this will be very frustrating :angel:.    It's too bad the leadership in CAP can't understand the importance of having only one very distinctive field uniform that everyone can wear, so that when we as an organization when performing "Missions for America" there will be absolutely no doubt to anyone observing these activities that this is the CIVIL Air Patrol :angel:   Look to the American Red Cross as an example of distinctive "no doubt" uniform wear in any media photos or videos.

Surely many members are facing some economic challenges, and hopefully other changes to CAP specific uniforms will not cost the members more money in order to participate in CAP activities

BTW thanks for your hard work and providing information :clap:
RM

You just don't give up flogging that dead horse, do you?

[etc]

I've read most of this thread so forgive me if this is off topic or if I'm repeating information... I'm not concerned w/ switching to ABUs. I'm not trying to act like i'm in the military and I think the blue service and name tape represents that.

I would be disappointed if they did away w/ the Service Dress blues though because that is part of the history and heritage of this organization. We are still the Aux of the USAF and I think our uniforms should reflect that connotation whether they're older or not.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I've read most of this thread so forgive me if this is off topic or if I'm repeating information... I'm not concerned w/ switching to ABUs. I'm not trying to act like i'm in the military and I think the blue service and name tape represents that.

Nor are the vast majority of OTHER CAP MEMBERS who wear the BDU's trying to "act military," though Radioman would have you think otherwise.

I would be disappointed if they did away w/ the Service Dress blues though because that is part of the history and heritage of this organization. We are still the Aux of the USAF and I think our uniforms should reflect that connotation whether they're older or not.

For the first time in our history, I could see it happening, because there has been so much conflict between those who want all-corporate and others who want all-AF.  I don't want it to, but it's been happening little by little over the past 20-odd years.

We used to wear virtually the same uniform as the USAF...the only difference being CAP insignia.  It's only been over the past same 20-odd years that some started being overzealous about "distinctiveness."

And unfortunately, we are only the USAF Auxiliary now when on an Air Force assigned mission.

[RiverAux]

For the first time in our history, I could see it happening, because there has been so much conflict between those who want all-corporate and others who want all-AF.  I don't want it to, but it's been happening little by little over the past 20-odd years.

Actually, the "conflict" isn't between those who want AF-style and those who want corporate military uniforms it is between those who want military style uniforms (of any kind) vs those who don't want any real uniform (golf shirt). 

Most of those wearing corporate military style uniforms would switch in a second to AF-style if regulations allowed. 

[Ned]

I get to chat with the CAP-USAF commander on a fairly regular basis.  I also spend a LOT of time talking with the members of the BoG who are appointed directly by the SECAF and who presumeably get guidance from the Secretary's office about CAP matters.

And there has never been a single hint or suggestion that the USAF is in any way unhappy with CAP members wearing the USAF service uniforms as currently authorized.  There are no plans to disturb that in the forseeable future.  It is not on the table, not in the pipeline.  Not in a box; not with a fox.

The ONLY discussions about such things take place here in the artificial reality of CAPTalk.  This is just one of those "buzz" things.  If enough people blog about it, it seems to have some basis in reality.

But it doesn't.

Ned Lee
Member BoG, NUC, and a bunch of other committees

[Eclipse]

So by that can we also assume that there is no discussion about relaxing the grooming standards so that everyone
can wear the same uniform?

[Spaceman3750]

So by that can we also assume that there is no discussion about relaxing the grooming standards so that everyone
can wear the same uniform?

Should there be? I always thought this board made a bigger issue of that than it actually is. At my present weight I know I look like crap in BDUs/blues (therefore I don't want to wear them at my present weight) and I don't want those who are eligible to wear them to lose them in the spirit of "one uniform". I also know some people with bird nests on their faces that also look like crap in BDUs.

[Eclipse]

We can't make everyone happy, but the compromise that similar services such as the CGAux, NSCC, and USAC have reached wherein
weight is a non-issue but grooming must be followed gets us a lot closer than where we are today.

I've encountered plenty of AD and Reservists who don't look all that great in a uniform either, having a CAC in your wallet doesn't
give you force power in that regard, however at least they all look the same.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I've encountered plenty of AD and Reservists who don't look all that great in a uniform either, having a CAC in your wallet doesn't
give you force power in that regard, however at least they all look the same.

So have I...one of my units was based at an Armed Forces Reserve facility where the Navy Reserves had photos on the wall of their sailors, and more than one had a bit of a paunch, including commissioned officers and WO's.

The Air Force's standards are very artificial for CAP compared to what they hold their own AD/Guard/Reserve to.

[Buzz]

The Air Force's standards are very artificial for CAP compared to what they hold their own AD/Guard/Reserve to.

The last time I looked, CAP height-weight standard for the AF uniform was above the threshold for the Fatboy Program.  At the time, I was right on the edge of the standard (buying a small single-seater was my real incentive to knock off that first 5 lbs, and I'm working on the next 5 lbs now).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The AF H/W standard takes into account percentage of body fat.

CAP standard does not.

Hence, a 5'7" bodybuilder with .0000001% body fat who is over the CAP weight limit because of muscle/skeletal weight cannot wear the uniform.

[Ned]

The AF H/W standard takes into account percentage of body fat.

CAP standard does not.

Hence, a 5'7" bodybuilder with .0000001% body fat who is over the CAP weight limit because of muscle/skeletal weight cannot wear the uniform.

I concur that the CAP standard (which actually is based on an Air Force standard no longer used plus 10%) does not account for body fat.

Which means that some members are not forced to stand around the meeting in their underwear getting taped by "certified taper."  Which is a good description of any Guard unit during the weigh-in. 

Off the top of your head, what percentage of CAP members are "5'7" bodybuilders with .0000001% body fat" who would benefit from taping?