Does your squadron/group/wing have an AMAZING flight training program?

[Holding Pattern]

Not too long ago I asked my pilots about the trials and tribbles of getting their CAP flight qualifications out of the way. I asked for unvarnished feedback, and I am now able to write a monograph on the subject, and not in the best of ways.

This led me to believe it is time to retool how my squadron does flight training. Me not being a pilot means I've had to pick up quite a lot to be able to try and hammer out the issues.

Before I try to re-invent the wheel, I'd appreciate people here letting me know if they have a flight program worth bragging about, and if so, if they would be so kind to send me their SOPs, training docs, schedules, etc. to help me make the lives of my pilots easier.

[etodd]

What kind of flight training are you asking about? 

Cadets? We have a CFI in our Squadron that likes to teach Cadets. Two of our Cadets have soloed in the last few weeks and will hopefully complete their PPL by year end. I wouldn't call it a "program".  Its the CFI and the Cadets doing their thing.

Seniors? We have several CFIs in our Squadron, all of whom enjoy teaching others. A couple of them helped me get my IFR last October. Sign up for a lot of MX missions and more with your CFI in the right seat. Wear the goggles and do an approach to the destination going and coming back. You can quickly burn lots of those 40 hours needed and plenty of approaches. And makes for a VERY affordable rating if most of the hours are AFAM missions.

Another CFI is helping me work on the Commercial Maneuvers, so hopefully I can complete that soon.  Then ... on to CFI, so I can start giving back ....

[Holding Pattern]

What kind of flight training are you asking about? 

Cadets? We have a CFI in our Squadron that likes to teach Cadets. Two of our Cadets have soloed in the last few weeks and will hopefully complete their PPL by year end. I wouldn't call it a "program".  Its the CFI and the Cadets doing their thing.

Seniors? We have several CFIs in our Squadron, all of whom enjoy teaching others. A couple of them helped me get my IFR last October. Sign up for a lot of MX missions and more with your CFI in the right seat. Wear the goggles and do an approach to the destination going and coming back. You can quickly burn lots of those 40 hours needed and plenty of approaches. And makes for a VERY affordable rating if most of the hours are AFAM missions.

Another CFI is helping me work on the Commercial Maneuvers, so hopefully I can complete that soon.  Then ... on to CFI, so I can start giving back ....

The most specific line item I'm looking at is taking people from non-CAP pilot to CAP Pilot status.

The road to Form 5 and Form 91.

[etodd]

The most specific line item I'm looking at is taking people from non-CAP pilot to CAP Pilot status.

The road to Form 5 and Form 91.

That would vary widely I guess depending on numbers. Did you all of sudden have an influx of a bunch new pilots, and you want to get them through it all together?

When I joined 4 years ago, I was the only new guy, and one of the CFIs gave me a F5. Then, being a self-starter, I jumped into studying the Mission Tasks Guides and SQTR Sheets, starting with Mission Scanner. Studied it all on my own, got an SET to check off the boxes and got a CFI to give me the two sorties needed. Done.

Then did the same for MO, and did AP as well. Then jumped on the Mission Pilot SQTR sheet and burned through all the FEMA courses, etc. Got signed off and did those sorties.  Then grabbed a Check Pilot to give me my F91.  Done.

So much is self study, like the FEMA courses. You don't want to hold up some folks while waiting for a couple stragglers to get around to it. 

Bottom line is that it all depends on how many CFIs and Check Pilots are in your Squadron. We have a few. Some Squadrons have none, and that makes it very difficult.

[etodd]

I know I talk a lot about grass roots and self-starters .... but it makes me wonder sometimes when I hear these things you mention. When I joined, I didn't sit back and wait. I wanted to be a Mission Pilot asap.  I didn't want to wait around for the Squadron or Wing to seek me out and hold my hand.  As I said above, I dived into it and spent countless late night hours studying task guides and FEMA info. And when I was ready, I started calling SETs and CFIs until one could meet me.  If you have a pilot that joins, and just comes to meetings to hangar talk and you never hear him talk about study FEMA courses, etc. ... then maybe you just just let him sit there and chat, until he decides he really wants to get involved.

(Ducks for cover)

[Spam]

The most specific line item I'm looking at is taking people from non-CAP pilot to CAP Pilot status.

The road to Form 5 and Form 91.

Lucky you. 1AUG19 publication date:

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P_070012_Pilot_Onboarding_97C094E8E3962.pdf

"The Pilot Onboarding pamphlet is provided to help transition new members quickly and efficiently from member to pilot. This guide is composed of self-study material and provides mentors baseline tools to determine how best to proceed in moving towards the Initial CAP Pilot Flight Evaluation, commonly referred to as a "Form 5" – which is the name of the form used to record results (e.g., CAPF 5)".

R/s
Spam

[arajca]

The most specific line item I'm looking at is taking people from non-CAP pilot to CAP Pilot status.

The road to Form 5 and Form 91.

Lucky you. 1AUG19 publication date:

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P_070012_Pilot_Onboarding_97C094E8E3962.pdf

"The Pilot Onboarding pamphlet is provided to help transition new members quickly and efficiently from member to pilot. This guide is composed of self-study material and provides mentors baseline tools to determine how best to proceed in moving towards the Initial CAP Pilot Flight Evaluation, commonly referred to as a "Form 5" – which is the name of the form used to record results (e.g., CAPF 5)".

R/s
Spam

Almost, but this guide is for taking new members who are already pilots and getting to CAP pilots, not to take non-pilot members to pilot.

[Ozzy]

Almost, but this guide is for taking new members who are already pilots and getting to CAP pilots, not to take non-pilot members to pilot.

There won't be a guide for taking non-pilot members to pilot (For Seniors at least) as CAP does not allow senior members to fly CAP planes* unless they already have a PPC. Which is unfortunate and IMO disappointing.

See CAPR 70-1

6. CAP Pilot Training, Proficiency, and Orientation Flights
6.1. Eligibility

6.1.3. A CAP member who is not a current and qualified CAP Transport Mission Pilot or CAP Mission Pilot may seek authorization to receive flight instruction toward an FAA certificate, rating, or endorsement in a CAP airplane as follows:

6.1.3.1. Senior members holding a Private Pilot Certificate or higher and active CAP member for at least one year – requires written authorization from the wing or higher commander.

6.1.3.2. All other senior members – requires written authorization from the Wing Commander, Region Commander, CAP/DO, and the National Commander or designee. Such authorization can be granted only if the member lives more than two hours driving time from a commercial flight training facility.

* In most cases

[Spam]

The most specific line item I'm looking at is taking people from non-CAP pilot to CAP Pilot status.

The road to Form 5 and Form 91.

Lucky you. 1AUG19 publication date:

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P_070012_Pilot_Onboarding_97C094E8E3962.pdf

"The Pilot Onboarding pamphlet is provided to help transition new members quickly and efficiently from member to pilot. This guide is composed of self-study material and provides mentors baseline tools to determine how best to proceed in moving towards the Initial CAP Pilot Flight Evaluation, commonly referred to as a "Form 5" – which is the name of the form used to record results (e.g., CAPF 5)".

R/s
Spam

Almost, but this guide is for taking new members who are already pilots and getting to CAP pilots, not to take non-pilot members to pilot.

"is taking people from non-CAP pilot to CAP Pilot status"

Yes, I think this is exactly what he asked for.

V/r
Spam

[etodd]

See CAPR 70-1

6.1.3.1. Senior members holding a Private Pilot Certificate or higher and active CAP member for at least one year – requires written authorization from the wing or higher commander.

I guess I missed that bold part last year, when I did all my IFR training. I just grabbed a CFI and we went flying. 

[Ozzy]

See CAPR 70-1

6.1.3.1. Senior members holding a Private Pilot Certificate or higher and active CAP member for at least one year – requires written authorization from the wing or higher commander.

I guess I missed that bold part last year, when I did all my IFR training. I just grabbed a CFI and we went flying. 

IFR training is fine. CAP, for whatever reason, doesn't want adults to learn to fly from nothing in CAP aircraft.

[etodd]

IFR training is fine. CAP, for whatever reason, doesn't want adults to learn to fly from nothing in CAP aircraft.

With good reasons. For one, a government agency doesn't need to compete for primary flight training with the Flight School or FBO next door.  Also, the reality of how many would then stay and "give back" to CAP.  Too many would use CAP to get their license and then disappear. Being volunteers, we cannot force them to serve a tour of duty like the military can.

[JohhnyD]

My unit has a robust flight program, I will ask our air ops folks to weigh in.

Any suggestions from others on "best practices", scheduling and coordination processes? Training ideas?

[Ozzy]

IFR training is fine. CAP, for whatever reason, doesn't want adults to learn to fly from nothing in CAP aircraft.

With good reasons. For one, a government agency doesn't need to compete for primary flight training with the Flight School or FBO next door.  Also, the reality of how many would then stay and "give back" to CAP.  Too many would use CAP to get their license and then disappear. Being volunteers, we cannot force them to serve a tour of duty like the military can.

CAP already does this for cadets and Seniors above private pilot license. I mean, what service requirement did you incur to do your IFR training?

Could also have the "Must be an active member of CAP for a minimum of two (Or More) years and have Wing Commander's or designee approval to begin flight training." Therefore front loading the service requirements, and a "Hey, this person joined but nobody knows him and hasn't completed any PD or assisted. Denied."

I've been in CAP since 2006 and have committed a lot of time, effort, and money to CAP. I know quite a few other members in the same situation that would love to have a chance to do a lesson or go for a PPC. What would be the problem with that?

[etodd]

IFR training is fine. CAP, for whatever reason, doesn't want adults to learn to fly from nothing in CAP aircraft.

With good reasons. For one, a government agency doesn't need to compete for primary flight training with the Flight School or FBO next door.  Also, the reality of how many would then stay and "give back" to CAP.  Too many would use CAP to get their license and then disappear. Being volunteers, we cannot force them to serve a tour of duty like the military can.

CAP already does this for cadets and Seniors above private pilot license. I mean, what service requirement did you incur to do your IFR training?

Could also have the "Must be an active member of CAP for a minimum of two (Or More) years and have Wing Commander's or designee approval to begin flight training." Therefore front loading the service requirements, and a "Hey, this person joined but nobody knows him and hasn't completed any PD or assisted. Denied."

I've been in CAP since 2006 and have committed a lot of time, effort, and money to CAP. I know quite a few other members in the same situation that would love to have a chance to do a lesson or go for a PPC. What would be the problem with that?

I don't have a problem with it if all the issues mentioned can be addressed.

One thing to keep in mind is that CAP has a shortage of CFIs.  The ones that we do have, are volunteers, and its entirely up to them as to whether or not they want to train anyone for PPL, or anything else.  CAP cannot force them to train you.

Many CAP CFIs, teach for a living.  So when they help a CAP member out, they are taking time, on a good weather day, when they could be teaching a paying student.  Its lost income.  Those that do this, cannot take on many non-paying students. 

Whether for PPL, IFR, Commercial, CFI .... it all boils down to being lucky enough to be in a Squadron with CFIs that are willing. They don't get paid, so you need to do everything on their timetable. Be their best friend, because they really don't HAVE to help you at all.  And it always helps, if you buy them lunch that day. 

[Eclipse]

CAP already does this for cadets and Seniors above private pilot license. I mean, what service requirement did you incur to do your IFR training?

There are leadership filters. 

Members who show up once a year for a F5 and then fade away again
are not, and should not be getting IFR, G1000, and other upgrade training by or through CAP, funded or otherwise.

As noted, if you want to make CAP even more unwelcome at the pancake breakfasts,
start competing for the ever shrinking pool of GA students.

Personally I think the Cadet Wings program is right on the edge of this already, as
it competes internally for aircraft resources already, causing contention at times,
and takes money out of CFI's pockets.

CAP's ROI is supposed to be about taking people out of the private sector
and making them ready to serve in limited roles as military and community support.

It excels when it can find people in a respective sector who already possess the technical skills
necessary, supplements those skills for a paramilitary / operational environment, and let's those
people serve to their best ability.

It fails handily when it tries to fix or replace already existing private sector or government roles,
including the "pilot shortage problem".

The best way CAP can work to attract more pilots and other professionals is to actually execute the
program as written, eliminate the non-mission-related administrative, and generally make it less
of a hassle to give away your time and treasure.

[Blanding]

IFR training is fine. CAP, for whatever reason, doesn't want adults to learn to fly from nothing in CAP aircraft.

With good reasons. For one, a government agency doesn't need to compete for primary flight training with the Flight School or FBO next door.  Also, the reality of how many would then stay and "give back" to CAP.  Too many would use CAP to get their license and then disappear. Being volunteers, we cannot force them to serve a tour of duty like the military can.

CAP is a private, nonprofit corporation[1].

In my personal opinion, good flight schools with competition on the field excel and find ways to compel students to fly there, whether that competition is CAP or other flight schools.

On what basis can you argue that senior members would disappear?
Would it not stand to reason that a member who feels invested in would be more likely to stay than one who is not?

Our organization's purpose is literally "To provide aviation and aerospace education and training, especially to its senior and cadet members."[1]

Of course, there's always "It's the way we've always done it" and to that, who could argue?

[1] https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAP_Constitution_Bylaws_4BC09E935985F.pdf 

[Eclipse]

In my personal opinion, good flight schools with competition on the field excel and find ways to compel students to fly there, whether that competition is CAP or other flight schools.

That's when there is a level playing field.  CAP would be the Google or Microsoft of flight training over night.

Also, there's no business owner on this planet, flight school or otherwise, who gets up every morning and says
"My business is thriving!  All I need now is some competition that provides the same service for free next door!  Then I'd really
be raking it in!  In fact, at the end of my work day, I think I'll go over there and do the same thing for free too!"

Competition is generally healthy for the consumer, not the provider.

On what basis can you argue that senior members would disappear?
Would it not stand to reason that a member who feels invested in would be more likely to stay than one who is not?

CAP currently has no mechanism, or even meaningful tracking of participation, nor any requirement or means of compulsion
for any service beyond writing a check that does not bounce.  It would be incredibly naive to think that if CAP starting offering
flight training to adults, presumably with the same cost-benefit structure as its other missions, that people would not join
in significant enough numbers to be a drag on "permanent" resources, while at the same time being able to quit without ramification
at any time.

These "members" would also constantly compete for resources with "real" members, increasing maintenance times / intervals and
making it eve more difficult to get near an airplane for the average member.

Why, on earth, would the average CFI at Flyover County Airport, support and provide free flight training to CAP adult members when
it would literally be taking money out of his pocket?  That is like suggesting Taxi owners train more Uber drivers, or UPS train
Amazon Delivery Services.

Everyone is all smiles right now about the increase in CAP flight training funding, because it's a very limited program, affecting
a very small group of cadets, who have always had flight training as an option thanks to the benevolence of CAP CFIs. 
Under 18, the average cadet is not likely to get flight training without some sort of scholarship, academy, or other subsidy,
but get to college age and you're competing now with colleges, flight schools, and private CFIs.

There's a tipping point where it's going to lose support because of the issues above.

It's already been an issue in my wing and we only have a couple of Wings students - planes get moved around
for mission tasking and grumbling is heard, or worse that it interfered with training, etc.

This is, in fact, a "zero sum game".

[Blanding]

That's when there is a level playing field.  CAP would be the Google or Microsoft of flight training over night.

Looking at some of your valid concerns below this point, I don't see how CAP could possibly be the Google of flight training - especially overnight.

It would be incredibly naive to think that if CAP starting offering
flight training to adults, presumably with the same cost-benefit structure as its other missions, that people would not join
in significant enough numbers to be a drag on "permanent" resources, while at the same time being able to quit without ramification
at any time.

These "members" would also constantly compete for resources with "real" members, increasing maintenance times / intervals and
making it eve more difficult to get near an airplane for the average member.

I would prefer to consider opportunities to grow membership as just that. Calling potential new members "drags on the program" and trying to concoct strategies for forcing them to stay or otherwise punish them is exactly how we'll doom ourselves to be an exclusive club that only the "worthy" can join. There can be no such thing as a "real" member or otherwise if you want members and the community around them to respect the organization.

Why, on earth, would the average CFI at Flyover County Airport, support and provide free flight training to CAP adult members when
it would literally be taking money out of his pocket?  That is like suggesting Taxi owners train more Uber drivers, or UPS train
Amazon Delivery Services.

I'm not suggesting that the average CFI at Flyover should provide free training to CAP adult members. I'm suggesting that there are CFIs in CAP who are willing to train adult members, for whatever reason that might be.

[Eclipse]

Adding hundreds of CFIs and 500+ aircraft to the flight school system would overwhelm the system.

Someone who joins CAP to get flight training and then leaves, is no more a "member", then the thousands of
empty shirts who write checks every year and haven't been to a meeting in 10 years, only worse these
will take time and resources from real members trying to actually serve in uniform.

Joining CAP just to get your PPL is no different then joining the local flying club, except it'll be cheaper, and
the aircraft are a lot nicer. That's not "serving in uniform" despite what those member might tell people at parties,
that's just buying a different golf shirt and spending less for the training (and enduring long pants in the summer).

Respect in the community comes from proficient, drama-free service in excess of costs incurred to that
same community.  Not competing with local businesses.

And yes, there are already plenty of CFIs who are willing to train CAP adult members, which is great and
one of the benefits of membership.  That's a separate relationship from CAP, and if a CFI is cool with that,
excellent, but there is no governmental subsidy involved, and no competition, per se, though if a large enough
group of private CFIs start giving away flight training for free on any given airport, they aren't likely to
be invited to the pancake breakfasts.