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How to refer to CAP NCO

Started by cadetesman, May 23, 2012, 10:19:14 PM

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FlyTiger77

#60
Quote from: NorCal21 on December 29, 2012, 07:07:39 AM
Uh, you'd better make sure they're all right with that. Coming out the Marines and working with Navy, you call anyone a sergeant who's a staff-, first-, gunnery-, etc they will rip you a knew one right quick. Even Army personnel will be sure to correct you very quickly. I've seen it.

As your response pertains to the Army, you are incorrect (and it is irelevant if an Army NCO is "...all right with that..." or not). Per AR 600-20 (chapter 2), when spoken to in conversation, all NCOs are referred to as "Sergeant". The exceptions are Corporals, First Sergeants and Sergeants Major. In many places, Soldiers make an exception for Master Sergeants as well, but that is not supported by the regulation.

Any NCO who attempts to make a correction to the contrary is out of line (and in over 21 years with the organization, I have not seen any make the attempt).

Also, again in the Army, subordinate officers are not referred to as "Mister/Miss" by more senior officers. More often than not, they are referred to by their first names. Of course, there are (many) exceptions.

As it has been pointed out elsewhere, the other service's customs and courtesies should only inform our actions in CAP when USAF/CAP customs and courtesies are silent.
JACK E. MULLINAX II, Lt Col, CAP

LGM30GMCC

Because it's fun to confuse the issue even more and throw a monkey wrench into things, I guess I'll give a window into the operations world; at least the slice I work in with missile ops.

NOTE CAUTION WARNING: This is simply a cultural exposition. I do not recommend use of this in CAP, it is for educational purposes only!

For us a lot of how terms of address depends on your relative position (rank) as opposed to grade. For example, Deputy Missile Combat Crew Instructors sometimes refer to higher ranking instructors very informally, however it is considered culturally unacceptable for line deps to refer to crew commander Captains, or any instructor/evaluator this way. Except in the case that they were crewed together and had a positive crew experience together.

Crew commanders frequently use just a first or last name with each other. If rank is being broken out it usually means someone isn't happy about something.

People in O-4 and above billets are always referred to as 'Sir/Ma'am.' This one was a bit confusing/disconcerting for our chief of training who came from a flying unit that was even more relaxed (very specialized missileers). He would say 'Guys, I'm just 'Bill'' And we would respond 'Uh, Yes, Sir.' Finally some of us were chatting and just explained it wasn't that we were being unfriendly, but that he wasn't 'Just a captain' like the rest of us. He was our boss and pretty high in the pecking order. He would also be a major soon so we all just called him 'Sir.' Eventually he became a major and it was a moot point anyway.

I now work in a shop that is mixed NCO/Officer and it is also very relaxed. All of the officers (save the major) are Captains and the NCOs are SSgt to MSgt. It's a complete mish-mash of titles/last names, and 'Sirs' flying around. The key is we treat each other respectfully. If that were to start to evaporate there would be some problems, but for the work we do, when it's just our shop, we are very relaxed.

Again, the previous has been for informational purposes only. It might be usable among SMs when in informal situations away from cadets. Otherwise it's just to show what the culture of the service really is like among at least a small slice of the officer corps of the USAF. Not recommended for training purposes.

Eclipse

#62
Nuance is something that CAP members tend to be terrible at, especially those without prior service.
There is so little contact time and attention paid to these baseline issues that they either become
way too prevalent, or are ignored.  Neither is proper.

Everything outside what is written puts you at risk.  The "risk" being relative to your G-A-S factor.

How you may interact with a superior with whom you spend hours a day in the trenches should have no bearing on
how you interact with someone you just met, or have no established informal relationship, and in the CAP world,
we should stand on formality in all cases where cadets are within earshot.

Just because your unit CC is uncomfortable with "Sir", doesn't give you carte blanche to address anyone else in a less formal way.

My experience has been that, outside the mean, there are two extremes - the relatively small group with legitimate street cred
both in the military and CAP who "get it" and choose to be less formal, with the ability to turn it on as necessary, and those
with zero street cred anywhere who are either passive-aggressively trying to downplay their lack of authority / grade / position
by disdaining courtesies, and / or those who simply can't be bothered, period (and that is generally reflected in their duty
performance elsewhere as well).



"That Others May Zoom"

JeffDG


Nuke52

Quote from: JeffDG on December 31, 2012, 07:14:24 PM
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on December 31, 2012, 06:19:14 PMIt's a complete mish-mash of titles/last names, and 'Sirs' flying around.
[Doctor Greetings - Spies Like Us[/url]
"Spies Like Us" --> Respect.

Every time I see an aerial chart of the 'Stan and see "Dunshanbe FIR," it makes me think of Spies Like Us and "the road to Dunshanbe..." and I chuckle. 
Lt Col
Wilson Awd