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What is real purpose of CAP

Started by flyguy06, June 18, 2008, 09:38:40 PM

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flyguy06

After my last topic about the cadet flight training and seeing the respnces. I have a question:

Are you folks in CAP only for SAR and ES and CD stuff? Is CAP becomming an exclusive ES force? Let me know so I wont renew my membership next year.

I joined CAP because I want to make a difference in youg peoples lives. I know what CAP did for me when I was a cadte and I want to pass it along to other young people. That is my primary purpose for being in this organization. If the culture is changin please let me know

Eclipse

Not in my parts - CP is strong an vibrant with great cadets and too much to do.

"That Others May Zoom"

sarflyer

Now flyguy, easy there!   ;D

You gotta know that some members want only ES and some only want the wild blue yonder.  CAP is what you make it.  I have read a few of your posts.   You have a good attitude, don't let those guys goat ya into an argument.  

Any squadron that concentrates on only one of the three missions has issues to be resolved.  CAP is about all three.  
Lt. Col. Paul F. Rowen, CAP
MAWG Director of Information Technology
NESA Webmaster
paul.rowen@mawg.cap.gov

Flying Pig

There are some who are only interested in SAR,CD and ES.  There are some who have no interest in that and are only interested in Cadet Programs.  There are some who enjoy it all.  I for one, enjoy it all, but am more involved in SAR and CD right now.  Having been a Deputy Commander for Cadets, and now a Sq. Commander, Ive had to learn people are here for many reasons.

As far as equipment issues, when we are talking about expensive aircraft, No, I dont agree that we should purchase them with cadet flight training in mind because that is not the main reson we have them.  We have them for SAR/ES but also use them for cadets as well.

But to answer your question, the cadet program is alive and well here in CAWG, and in my Sq.

kpetersen

I generally don't post in the ES/flying sub-forums because both come second to cadet programs for me personally.  I will work in ES/AE when necessary, but I do not consider myself anywhere near the expert.

That might be the issue you're seeing.  To actually become an expert, generally a person has to specialize in the area.  This is a vast assumption on my part, but the people that tend to post are either specialized in their area, consider themselves experts after minimal knowledge and just like arguing, or they're somewhere in the middle.  I believe if you were able to poll all the lurkers, you would find more that tend to generally blend into all of the missions of CAP.
Kat Petersen, Maj, CAP

flyguy06

Thanks for the replies guys. My mind is at ease again. whew. I was worried for a minute there.

mikeylikey

^ Don't worry!  As long as you have a familiar understanding of ES and AE, you are more than welcome to concentrate most of your efforts on CP.  Don't forget, AE is part of the Cadet Program, and even Cadet Program guys and girls should be able to relate to cadets that want ES. 

Even though the Cadet Program is not about ES, ES is still one of the three missions, that all members (both Cadet and Senior) should be familiar with. 

I focus on Cadet Programs heavily myself, but I can still get a ground team together or sit MO/MS if needs dictated. 

I do not fly for CAP though.  I did receive most of my flight time through CAP, and it cost me much less becoming a pilot with help from CAP scholarships and whatnot, and I appreciate that, but never had a real interest to fly for the organization.  I guess I am just weird that way.  Perhaps one day I will fly for CAP, but not today.   
What's up monkeys?

flyguy06

Quote from: mikeylikey on June 18, 2008, 10:31:03 PM
^ Don't worry!  As long as you have a familiar understanding of ES and AE, you are more than welcome to concentrate most of your efforts on CP.  Don't forget, AE is part of the Cadet Program, and even Cadet Program guys and girls should be able to relate to cadets that want ES. 

Even though the Cadet Program is not about ES, ES is still one of the three missions, that all members (both Cadet and Senior) should be familiar with. 

I focus on Cadet Programs heavily myself, but I can still get a ground team together or sit MO/MS if needs dictated. 

I do not fly for CAP though.  I did receive most of my flight time through CAP, and it cost me much less becoming a pilot with help from CAP scholarships and whatnot, and I appreciate that, but never had a real interest to fly for the organization.  I guess I am just weird that way.  Perhaps one day I will fly for CAP, but not today.   

That is interesting. Why dont you fly for CAP if you are a pilot?

mikeylikey

The area of my Wing I am from is a huge "old boys club".  I find flying to be something to do as a hobby, taking a plane from the AFB aero-club once a month is enjoyable, and flying out of the local Community College with my buddies is a lot of fun, but if I were to start flying for CAP, I can very easily burn myself out again. 

Not that the "old boys club" is a bad thing, I just really never liked the group of CAP pilots in my area, even when I was a Cadet. 

However, after my next deployment, when a new DCC takes over in my SQD and I get back, I may move into the flying arena.

I know......stupid reasons not to fly, but honestly, If I lived on the other side of my Wing, I would be flying all the time.   
What's up monkeys?

lordmonar

It is intresting that you call out people for being too ES-centric and neglecting CP.....but you never mention AE. ;D

CAP as an organisation has three distinct but interrelated missions.  That does not mean each and every squadron must participate in them....and by extention it does not mean each and every member must participate in each and every "mission" of CAP.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse

At a member-level all three may be optional, at a squadron level they should not be.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Quote from: Eclipse on June 19, 2008, 04:57:56 AM
At a member-level all three may be optional, at a squadron level they should not be.

Assuming you have the personnel to do all three.

Also....Overseas Squadron are forbidden to do any ES missions....they can't even get a training mission number to get ES qualified.

And finally there is the practicallity aspect.  If you got a squadron that only wants to fly (and we got them here in Nevada)...and you want to do some CP stuff.....how do you force volunteers to spend their time doing something they don't want to?

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

kpetersen

Quote from: lordmonar on June 19, 2008, 05:04:29 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 19, 2008, 04:57:56 AM
At a member-level all three may be optional, at a squadron level they should not be.

Assuming you have the personnel to do all three.

Also....Overseas Squadron are forbidden to do any ES missions....they can't even get a training mission number to get ES qualified.

And finally there is the practicallity aspect.  If you got a squadron that only wants to fly (and we got them here in Nevada)...and you want to do some CP stuff.....how do you force volunteers to spend their time doing something they don't want to?

That's what senior squadrons are for ;-)
Kat Petersen, Maj, CAP

mikeylikey

^ Make them teach Aerospace.  Letting the pilots get away with "only flying" promotes the "pilot club" mentality we need to get away from.  If we end up losing pilots because of it, we will adjust our missions until we recruit new ones!

There are 3 missions, each and every SQD (other than overseas SQDs) should be doing.  Not doing them, is simply wrong.  

Granted there are Senior SQD's, that most likely only focus on ES and flying, there is no reason to do Cadet Programs there.  
What's up monkeys?

SarDragon

Quote from: mikeylikey on June 19, 2008, 05:09:48 AM
^ Make them teach Aerospace.  Letting the pilots get away with "only flying" promotes the "pilot club" mentality we need to get away from.  If we end up losing pilots because of it, we will adjust our missions until we recruit new ones!

There are 3 missions, each and every SQD (other than overseas SQDs) should be doing.  Not doing them, is simply wrong. 

Granted there are Senior SQD's, that most likely only focus on ES and flying, there is no reason to do Cadet Programs there. 

I'm in a Senior Sq, and our contribution to CP is O-rides with our airplane. We'll be doing the first batch since we got the airplane sometime this month.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Eclipse

#15
Quote from: lordmonar on June 19, 2008, 05:04:29 AM
Also....Overseas Squadron are forbidden to do any ES missions....they can't even get a training mission number to get ES qualified.

Not exactly enough of those units to establish the rule, really, but still, the inability to get a mission number would not stop members from doing the training work for the learning and readiness aspect, unless you are saying they are prohibited from ES as a concept because they are overseas.

Quote from: lordmonar on June 19, 2008, 05:04:29 AMhow do you force volunteers to spend their time doing something they don't want to?

You can't, really, but that doesn't absolve the unit CC from the responsibility of either running a full program or re-chartering to remove the parts they don't like.

Its somewhat circular, if the program is not in place, there's nothing to do, so you have to buy off the pain of some gnashing of teeth when you change the expectations.

There's no easy answer to this, which is why its an on-going problem.   :(


"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

Regarding overseas units doing ES, it was as much a case of not having qualified instructors as it might have been of any official prohibition.

I didn't explore it much when I was in Pat's unit, but we did manage to do some weekend bivvies with some of the cop guys, one of which was in the unit. We also did moulage/victim duty for a couple of the AF exercises. The cadets loved that.

Many of the necessary GT skills can be taught, but anything to do with DFing, or radio operation would have been next to impossible. No flight ops either. If we couldn't do it on base, it wasn't going to happen.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

LittleIronPilot

Quote from: Eclipse on June 19, 2008, 04:57:56 AM
At a member-level all three may be optional, at a squadron level they should not be.

So, ummmm, uhhh....what is a SENIOR squadron supposed to do? Sure they will do O-rides and such, but they have NO CADETS and thus do not have a strong CP program.

My squadron is large, with about 50 seniors and 70 cadets. We do many things together, but we also do many, many things apart. Some want to work with the cadets, some want nothing to do with them.

That is the members choice, and fortunately we have the ability to accommodate them. If you were to ask me why *I* joined CAP, and wanted an honest answer, it is because of ES/SAR/CD. I am 39, I have no kids, am most likely not going to have kids, and generally have more fun around adults. Does this make me a bad person?

IceNine

Every unit has their purpose, as Eclipse said half of the battle is getting the unit CC to recognize that they are lacking in a particular area and they are then responsible for some corrective action.  While the preferred correction is to incorporate all 3 missions, it is not the only option.  If I was commander of a "composite" squadron with only 4 cadets and 45 SM Pilots there would be 2 options

1) Pull on the heart strings of the pilots that are parents and have them help me build up the cadet contingent.

2) find alternate units for my 4 cadets, and re-charter as a senior squadron.

Does rechartering take away the requirement to do CP, absolutely not.  There is still a requirement to do the work with the cadets through O-flights, AE workshops/classes, rocketry, etc.  And quite frankly the privledge to fly the aircraft in this organization, especially for free, should take a little more than a card with Orville and Wilbur, and a form 5. 

  I am a strong believer that if you are benefiting from something in this program it is your duty to return that to someone else.  Just as I don't promote comm or finance folks that aren't helping the unit with those quals, similarly I don't let pilots fly that don't use their knowledge to better the program as a whole
"All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies"

Book of Bokonon
Chapter 4

Flying Pig

^Over the past year or so, since I have been back in CAP, as part of a unit with an aircraft, we have people come and go.  We get instructors from local flight school looking to build time, and others like that.  When we start to talk to them about Form 5's, Form 91's and then ask them what Specialty Track they are interested in, and what staff job they would like, they don't come back.

I have been very frank with new members who are, or have aspirations of flying.  I tell them that there are a lot of opportunities in CAP, but if you think we are going to just throw you the keys, your mistaken.  CAP doesn't just happen on its own. My Sq. has a pretty good balance.