What is "playing soldier?"

[Major Carrales]

"Playing soldier?"  I have always had a strange problem with that phrase.

Drill and Ceremony...totally traditional in terms of modern warfare (not to mention suicidal).  Are modern soldiers "playing soldiers" when they do Drill?  No, we know it is an exercise in "team work" and precision.  Or do we?

So, what is "playing soldier?"

1) CAP Officers exchanging salutes?

2) CAP Cadets in BDUs looking for an ELT in a wooded area?

3) Wearing USAF STYLE dress?

More importantly, from what part of a person's attitude does this phase come?

[RogueLeader]

I also happen to think that it depends on the person you ask.  To some, it is anything doing it because the military does it that way, to others, it means that they act in some cases believe that they are equal to military.

Take a new 2d Lt and ask him to go on post.  If he demands that all NCO's and  Warrants salute him, that is playing soldier to most.

Take a 1 Lt that has his 24 &72 hr pack as pistol belt and pouches, with 72 in an Alice pack.  Here it comes down to intent.  Because mil does/did it that way- is playing soldier.  Now, if he has it that way is because it was relatively cheap, and it worked for him- no, that is not playing anything.  That is personal preference.

[Major Carrales]

Now, if he has it that way is because it was relatively cheap, and it worked for him- no, that is not playing anything.  That is personal preference.

That sounds more like good sense.

[RogueLeader]

^^Depends on where you are and such.  In some areas, it had better not be OD green.  Like some in Charlie Alpha, perhaps.  To me it makes sense, to others, they don't care.

[flyguy06]

"Playing soldier?"  I have always had a strange problem with that phrase.

Drill and Ceremony...totally traditional in terms of modern warfare (not to mention suicidal).  Are modern soldiers "playing soldiers" when they do Drill?  No, we know it is an exercise in "team work" and precision.  Or do we?

So, what is "playing soldier?"

1) CAP Officers exchanging salutes?

2) CAP Cadets in BDUs looking for an ELT in a wooded area?

3) Wearing USAF STYLE dress?

More importantly, from what part of a person's attitude does this phase come?

Well, I can tell you that outside of basic training, soldiers dont really "drill". Sure they have formations twice a day depending on the unit. But they dont go around "left face, right face, forward march" stuff. AT company PT they wight do that but again, it all depends on the unit. A supply comany may do organized company PT once a week whereas an Infantry Company may do it 5 days a week. Doctors and Nurses well, hell they may do it once a month or year.

Its not like in the army, in a regular line unit soldiers are marching everywher they go. Thats not the real army.

[JayT]

Playing soldier.......hmmmm.

Singing jodies and having mottos that that are have nothing to do with CAP.

Senior Members who demand cadets 'Sound Off' everytime they answer him in a class.

I think playing soldier is more of an attitude then anything. Having squared away equipment? Thats legit, thats cool. Having an assault vest, with a dogboweled hat you constantly call a 'cover,' with subdued name tapes (when you never served in any organization that issues subdued tapes) on your bag, and another nametape on the back of your hat, singing Marine Corps jodies and screaming 'Outstanding SIR!' at the top of your lungs everytime someone looks in your direction?

Oh yeah. Thats playing soldier.

The uniforms, the grade structure, the C&C, etc, thats all aspect of the organization. Taking any of those aspects, and many more, to an extreme, and you have playing soldier.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Frankly, I had to shut off the computer to cool down.  The mods would have run out of padlocks if I had types after reading Nomex Maximus' comments.

I consider snide remarks like "Playing soldier" when one is talking about standing respectfully and properly in a formation for the colors or for one of the brothers or sisters getting an award, to be about as personally disrespectful as it gets.

I like the ceremony that accompanies service in the military.  I like going to a new unit, and knowing that the formation will be pretty much what eery other unit has.  It adds to a sense of teamwork, and belonging, and shared culture.

Then some zero days of active duty guy tells me that those values that we share are not his, and we are simply "Playing soldier."  He then wants to be a part of an auxiliary military service, but those of us who accept the values of that service are simply cretins, or children playing soldier.

I have to shut down again and have another drink.  I'm getting PO'ed again

[davedove]

I think that "playing soldier" is all relative.  There seem to be some folks who feel that unless everyone is up to military fitness standards and CAP is deployed alongside the real military, then CAP is not military enough.  There seem to be others who feel that having to wear any uniform is pushing it too far towards the military.  And of course, there is the whole spectrum in the middle.

I don't mind the military trappings.  Having been around the military in one aspect or another for over twenty years, the trappings are familiar.  Some would say that liking to wear the grade insignia and ribbons is being a "wannabe."  But, I don't want to be "just like the military."  If I wanted that, I would have stayed in the Army all those years ago.  For me, CAP is that happy middle ground.

[Eclipse]

It is a derogatory term, plain and simple, used by people who would compare services as if any one is "better" than any other.

[Skyray]

Well, Kach, I am liking you better every day.

"Playing Soldier" is the newly minted Wing Commander demanding the LtCol who outranked him by a couple of ranks until yesterday, and whom he has known since they were both slick sleeves, address him only as "Colonel."  And losing it when the LtCol tells him he doesn't have the basic attributes of a "Colonel."  Hanging up on him might have been a little much.

[O-Rex]

I think that what we are talking about here is more of attitude than appearance.

I don't think that anyone either within the organization or out would look upon a member with a high & tight and a razor-sharp uniform as "playing soldier" as long as they performed their duties with a certain "quiet dignity" and maintain a business-like manner.

CAP members who try to be over-the-top or "more military than the military" are looked upon with a jaundiced eye.

At the end of the day, just be yourself.

[JohnKachenmeister]

That's not what got me irritated last night, Rex.

The "Playing soldier" comment was a derogatory slap at the idea that officers in the CAP, as members of the Air Force Auxiliary, should know how to perform basic drill and ceremonies.  One member on the board derided the concept as "Playign soldier."

Formations, and ceremonies are a part of military life, and if you join a military organization, you accept that certain military things are going to occur.  Its not like CAP is a volunteer fire department. 

I don't like those guys who become charactitures of military folk but who themselves have never served, and yes, CAP has a lot of them.  But that is no reason to turn your back on all military values, or, worse, to disparage those who know their value.

[Stonewall]

Just because a simple formation and reporting to a commander to receive an award are basic components of D&C, doesn't mean every senior needs to learn every aspect of drill, nor do they even need to know how to march.  Saluting, reporting, stationary movements like attention, parade rest, at ease and fall out; definitely.  Even the crusty old Lt Col pilot who has no interest in cadet programs should know that stuff.

And like was said above, it's not like the real military goes to work every day and does D&C, like I described above, that's about it.  Formations, saluting, reporting and a few stationary movements.  Heck, when I was in a PJ squadron, we even had formations.  Yep, you'd see PJs, CROs, SERE instructors, and all the support guys standing in formation.  They came to attention, parade reset, someone reported to the commander to get an award or promoted and we fell out.

As for "playing soldier", there are a number of military veterans in CAP who do know what being a soldier is and most likely don't go out of their way to be, and I like this term, "more military than the military".  After saying that, I can easily speak of several veterans who either missed the military too much or whatever job they did do in the military wasn't "military enough" for them so they they're trying to pick up where they left off.

Experienced, rational and mature seniors need to reel those folks in and guide them.  It's not like they're so many of them that it's an infectious disease taking over our ranks.  I don't even have one of those types in my squadron right now.  But I've had them before, and we had to "let him go".  After I told him he couldn't wear his "USMC authorized sniper badge", which doesn't exist, on his CAP BDUs, he gave me grief, but took it off and stayed.  It wasn't until he had all of the cadets in a circle doing push-ups (getting smoked) for something stupid that we had to tell him he wasn't welcome.  His 300 lb 5' '9" frame couldn't have done 1 push-up, yet he felt it necessary to drop cadets as if they were in boot camp.

If you are so pompous that you can't understand that CAP is a paramilitary organization, then your sorry ass needs to find another home.  I don't care if you're the best man-tracker in the SAR community, if you don't have something to offer to the totality of the program, you can go do your search and rescue somewhere else.  If you're a pilot with 5,000 hours and can fly circles around our best pilots, but you refuse to fly cadets because you don't agree with the customs and courtesies aspect of our program, then you better go find a flying club somewhere else.

Yeah, I think CAP has a few folks that "play soldier".  It's not a plague affecting our ranks, but it is a derogatory term to inflict discontent among those who do it right rather than to refer to an over zealous member who may need to be guided.

Someone want to say that I'm playing soldier because I wear military issue web gear, carry a military issue ruck sack, can out march cadets, have a rock solid uniform, know my [poop], have a regulation hair cut, do PT with the cadets, and salute folks that salute me?  I'll run circles around your silly ass, out in the field where you say you're God's gift to SAR or in the classroom, in or out of uniform.

[jimmydeanno]

^   Well said.

[O-Rex]

I still think it's all about balance.

D&C for seniors: unfortunately non-prior-service (mil or cadet) don't get much of it until the go to RSC-I think that's way too late.

Since we don't have a "CAP OTS" many members learn-as-they-go.  I'd hate to see that misinterpreted.

I've splashed it on other threads ad-nauseum, and I'll say it again: two cardinal rules of CAP membership are- Maintain your sense of perspective, and work within the organizational framework.

Regardless of the opinions of detractors, from within or without; regardless of which of our missions motivates you, keeping these rules close-to-heart within a framework of maturity and humility will keep your compass true, and you beyond reproach. 

[Stonewall]

D&C for seniors: unfortunately non-prior-service (mil or cadet) don't get much of it until the go to RSC-I think that's way too late.

It's being taught at TLC, right?  I don't remember D&C being taught at RSC when I went.

I realize not every senior attends TLC (Training Leaders of Cadets), but at a recent TLC held here in FL, I was asked to teach a block on C&C and D&C.  Being an experienced Senior Member with most of my work being in Cadet Programs, I knew exactly what they needed.  Standing in formation, they needed to know some stationary movements such as attention, parade rest, at ease, etc.  And with C&C, the whole saluting process.  That's it, one hour of their life and now they know the basics.

[Walkman]

I still think it's all about balance...

Rex-
Great statement. Most things in life come down to achieving a balance.

I'm one of those that joined w/o prior military service. I had always wanted to join the military, but... long story. By the time I did try to join the Reserves, I didn't qualify. I figured I'd just have to live with my regrets about serving my whole life. It's something that I would think about several times a week, even decades later. So CAP is the closest I'll ever get to that dream. D&C, the uniform, all the AF trappings that are a part of CAP are important to me right now, because I'm finally able to realize the dream I've had since being a kid. I know I'm not RealMilitary®. but I'm going to treat the military customs of CAP seriously. That's why I joined. And I'm extremely grateful for the opportunity.

[ddelaney103]

What is "playing soldier?"  Good question.

Now, I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I think bright line stuff is trying to be "more Catholic than the Pope," i.e. things that are beyond what the average RM Airmen does.  Part of this is accessories: wheel caps, cords, berets, $300 CAP swords.  Part of this is actions: drill beyond what your average auxiliarist needs to do the mission (saluting, standing formation, receiving awards).

There are lots of things advocated on this and previous boards that is not as obvious but still have aspects of "plating soldier."  The continual drive to make CAP uniforms more like the AF has that appearance.  We're constantly hearing people advocating AFPAT nametapes and the quest for metal grade on the Service Dress.  Does it improve our ability to do our job?  No, and in the case of camo tapes it makes it more difficult to see names or badges.  But it does make us look more like the AF, which improves the ability to "play soldier."

My personal opinion (and here's where I summon the poopstorm) is our grade insignia is "playing soldier."  We use RM officer grade without any of the underlying assumptions, such as implicit authority and responsibility.  Other orgs (police, fire, Salvation Army) use the titles, insignia, or both, but they also assume the senior guy is in charge and is responsible for what happens.  In CAP, this is never the case.  I'd say we're like reenactors, but at least the guys pretending to be privates will pretend to listen to the guy pretending to be the sergeant.

In theory, the people in CAP know this and will tell you they understand they're not "real officers."  However, actions often speak louder than words.  We put on the suits, call each other "Major" or "Colonel" and decline to salute RM officers of subordinate grade.  Moreover, asking them to take off the oak leaves in favor of some other marking system will arouse howls of protest.  For whatever reason, people like the grade and the salutes and the titles and are loath to give them up.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention at this point why I haven't either gotten out or turned in my leaves.  As to the former, I like flying and serving and there are few places you can be a aerial observer working DR and missing persons except through CAP. 

As to the latter, such of unilateral move would be damaging to my perceived rep due to the internal and external custom.  As I have said before, SMWOG are seen as n00bs and I don't expect that will change anytime soon.  I have also mentioned the story of the IC who decided to promote because the target's family came to him worried that CAP was throwing in the towel because yesterday's IC was a Lt Col and today's was a Captain.  Individual moves away from the bling will not help the matter.

Of course, that's just my opinion - I could be wrong.

[Sgt. Savage]

If you are so pompous that you can't understand that CAP is a paramilitary organization, then your sorry ass needs to find another home.  I don't care if you're the best man-tracker in the SAR community, if you don't have something to offer to the totality of the program, you can go do your search and rescue somewhere else.  If you're a pilot with 5,000 hours and can fly circles around our best pilots, but you refuse to fly cadets because you don't agree with the customs and courtesies aspect of our program, then you better go find a flying club somewhere else.

Yeah, I think CAP has a few folks that "play soldier".  It's not a plague affecting our ranks, but it is a derogatory term to inflict discontent among those who do it right rather than to refer to an over zealous member who may need to be guided.

Someone want to say that I'm playing soldier because I wear military issue web gear, carry a military issue ruck sack, can out march cadets, have a rock solid uniform, know my [poop], have a regulation hair cut, do PT with the cadets, and salute folks that salute me?  I'll run circles around your silly ass, out in the field where you say you're God's gift to SAR or in the classroom, in or out of uniform.

Man I love you (But not in an airport bathroom kinda way )

Those who have been there likely could have stayed if that was what they wanted. Most of us who have only ask for the minimum of competence in matters of military bearing. As I said in another thread, we don't need to be 3rd ID good. We just need to be able to function within a military setting in a manner that brings credit upon the organization.

BTW, I wear only military uniforms and equipment. I got my gear from DRMO. Not only was it free, but it's the gear I'm most comfortable in. PLEASE, somebody call me a "wannabe" or accuse me of playing soldier. I'll make them do pushups until there hands become fossil.

[floridacyclist]

Someone want to say that I'm playing soldier because I wear military issue web gear, carry a military issue ruck sack, can out march cadets, have a rock solid uniform, know my [poop], have a regulation hair cut, do PT with the cadets, and salute folks that salute me?  I'll run circles around your silly ass, out in the field where you say you're God's gift to SAR or in the classroom, in or out of uniform.

HOO!!! HOO!!! HOO!!!