Who owns their own narrowband radio?

[cap235629]

The new ones do as they are just that REPEATERS and will handle encryption.

How would a repeater "handle" encryption - the encode / decode is on both ends, not over the air, right?

exactly, the keys are loaded into the mobiles and portables, the voice or data is encrypted by the sending unit, sent digitally using APCO 25 protocols, repeated as the digital signal is just a series of 1's and 0's encrypted or not, and decrypted by the receiving radios.  All of the new portable repeaters are digital APCO 25 standard

[kd8gua]

Unless a repeater has encryption technology built into it,  it will not handle encryption from individual radios. The receiving radios will just hear what sounds like open squelch, even if all radios using the repeater are on the same encryption key. The data stream sent with the encrypted audio signal will be completely ignored by the repeater, therefore the only thing that will be passed is the unencrypted audio (which has the squelch sound).

To add to the OT, I own a Motorola MT 2000 narrowband analog handheld, and a Motorola Astro Spectra P25 digital narrowband mobile.

[cap235629]

To put all this to rest I called my Wing DC.  The new portable repeaters are encryption capable.

If you have any questions, contact your Wing DC or the NTC.

[wuzafuzz]

To put all this to rest I called my Wing DC.  The new portable repeaters are encryption capable.

If you have any questions, contact your Wing DC or the NTC.

Interesting, I was under the impression the repeater itself had to be specifically configured for encryption.  However it makes sense that the encryption is merely embedded within the digital stream.  We don't have encryption keys to play with yet. 

Back on the topic of personal owned radios, I wish we had more member owned radios.  We have an activity this weekend that is coming up short on portables, even after putting out the call for more.     There just aren't enough CAP owned portables to go around. 

[JoeTomasone]

There is a big difference between P25 and encryption.   

[wuzafuzz]

There is a big difference between P25 and encryption.

Understood, but the APCO 25 standard does support the use of encryption, as well as trunking and data.  The question becomes how it works and affects us. 

When encryption is combined with APCO 25 is the audio encrypted before it is modulated into the digital stream?  If so, the digitally modulated signal should pass through a P25 repeater, correct?  Or is the entire signal wrapped in encryption and therefore "invisible" to a standard P25 repeater?  The latter would require a properly equipped repeater to work.

I've never used encryption before, so I am honestly curious.

[SarDragon]

The digital stream is all of the modulation, before it is impressed upon the RF that goes out the antenna. Encryption is usually the final transformation ofn the digital stream before modulation of the RF occurs.

Audio -> A-to-D converter = digital audio stream -> key + exclusive or gate = encrypted audio -> modulator = audio + RF -> antenna

Very simplified, but it's the basic process.

[cap235629]

The digital stream is all of the modulation, before it is impressed upon the RF that goes out the antenna. Encryption is usually the final transformation ofn the digital stream before modulation of the RF occurs.

Audio -> A-to-D converter = digital audio stream -> key + exclusive or gate = encrypted audio -> modulator = audio + RF -> antenna

Very simplified, but it's the basic process.

So yes.

I tried to explain it in laymans terms and was told I was wrong so I gave up

[CAP.is.1337]

I own several NTIA compliant handhelds. If you're looking for the best digital bang for your buck, find a EFJ 5100, Astro Saber, or XTS 3000 with P25 flashcodes. If you're not going to use P25, I'd recommend an HT1000 or MT2000, as those can be had for a song these days.

[aconway]

I have a Motorola XTS5000 VHF and a XTS3000 VHF they are NTIA compliant and they will do P25 and encryption. 

[CAP.is.1337]

I have a Motorola XTS5000 VHF and a XTS3000 VHF they are NTIA compliant and they will do P25 and encryption.

It is important to note that they will only do P25 if properly flashed, (the code must begin with a 1 or 5,) and they will only do CAP-compliant encryption with the proper module and keyloader.

[aconway]

I have a VHF XTS5000 and a XTS2500 they do P25. I also have a base that is a Motorola XTL2500.

[SJFedor]

I have a VHF XTS5000 and a XTS2500 they do P25. I also have a base that is a Motorola XTL2500.

And a lot of money.

[Fubar]

And a lot of money.

Well, he did anyway...