Proposal 1: CAP Officer Advisory Councils

[Major Carrales]

Where is the true voice of "CAP?"  Is it in forum such as this one and on-line polls and blogs?  Actually, not, its right there in our units.   But, how do we know what that voice is? 

Cadet's have a method of representative-democracy in the cadet Advisory Council.  It's out side the chain-of-command and purely advisory, but it does demonstrate a glimpse into ideally what cadets want of Cadet Programs in their Group, Wing and Region.

Thus, to monitor the true voice of CAP Membership how 'bout...

CAP Officer Advisory Councils, the CAC for CAP Officers that serve as advisory bodies to Groups, Wing and Region.  The place to lobby through democratic practice.  The place to gauge reactions on wear tests, policy flag balloons and to better address suggestions. 

While not part of the Chain of Command, it allows the voice to the people in the trenches to have a say...a meaningful say.  Current Commanders are forbidden membership, encourage "Joe Everyday CAP OFFICER" to join.

The National Version of this Body has a place to make suggestions at the National Board and can issue a "report card."  While it has no force of law, it demonstrates the importance of MEMBER VOICE.

[IceNine]

As a former Regional CAC Chariman, I say SIGN ME UP!

Great idea, how do we use the current voice that we have to make this happen?

[Major Carrales]

As a former Regional CAC Chariman, I say SIGN ME UP!

Great idea, how do we use the current voice that we have to make this happen?

I'm glad you like the proposal, we have a good time in these forums debating issues and making solutions to things that really are an issue.  I don't see why we could not have that at the CAP Officer Level.

Let's hammer this out...as CAP Officers we could meet by teleconference or at Wing Conferences.

[RogueLeader]

Could we call it SAC: Senior Advisory Councils?

[lordmonar]

Why reinvent the wheel?

Your Senior Member "CAC" is called your squadron commander.....or his designated alternate attendning wing/group staff meetings.

[Major Carrales]

Why reinvent the wheel?

Well, to be honest.  This proposal is based on the current situation where people claim that the Leadership doesn't listen to the "will of the people."  It is a stituation, that according to lots of folks here, where the "leadership is a problem."

These are places where representative-deomcracy can be practiced, produce a system of proposals and present them to the Leadership.  Then, if this process is followed, and a leader snubbed these ideas...the allegations could be backed up with documentation.

So when people say, the "leadership is not listening to the will of the membership," it would be more than just an agendistic catchphrase.

Also, it would give ownship to the membership when proposals are adopted. 

[lordmonar]

It's called a chain of command.....there is no "will of the people."

You are buying into RAYRAY's line of thinking.

[ZigZag911]

We already have places for members to express their views freely-- places like CAP Talk!

[Major Carrales]

It's called a chain of command.....there is no "will of the people."

You are buying into RAYRAY's line of thinking.

The CAP Officer Advisory Council's function is advisory only, a tool for the Chain of Command to have another angle to consider when making descisions.  It is not sedition...but advice built up from the grassroots.

As for your last comment...

Such a body would make the actions of such parties a moot point.  I think he would agree...as well as his nemeses. 

[Major Carrales]

We already have places for members to express their views freely-- places like CAP Talk!

Yes, but these forums are not mainstream.  CAP Officer Advisory Councils would be and the great ideas that so often make their way to the oblivion of "page three" could actually per officially proposed.  That is the difference.

Places like CAPTALK would not be obsolete, I foresee these places as forums for CAP Officer Advisory Councils across the nation.

[AlphaSigOU]

We already have places for members to express their views freely-- places like CAP Talk!

Yes, but these forums are not mainstream.  CAP Officer Advisory Councils would be and the great ideas that so often make their way to the oblivion of "page three" could actually per officially proposed.  That is the difference.

Places like CAPTALK would not be obsolete, I foresee these places as forums for CAP Officer Advisory Councils across the nation.

Much like the RealAirForce's Company Grade Officer's Council (CGOC) or the unofficial Lieutenant's Protective Association (LPA).

[jimmydeanno]

Perhaps we could get the CAC to sponsor the idea

[Pylon]

The problem is that it's difficult to focus local-level CAC's to their actual purpose of advisory bodies.  Instead, they often find themselves planning picnics and joint activities or trying to write proposals for ribbons.  Higher level CAC's, such as NCAC, seem to have the right ideas but they also likely benefit from better advisors and more experienced members.

I see senior-version of CACs suffering from the exact same mess.  Endless proposals on new ribbons or getting tasked to plan the (insert echelon here)-wide picnic or bivouac or whatever.

In addition, based on the level of the "opinions" expressed here at CAPTalk, I don't see the overall senior membership as ready to properly and effectively voice legitimate concerns and opinions to corporate officers.

Lordmonar already pointed out that your squadron commander is your voice to higher levels.  Your squadron and group commanders can let their respective wing commander know what their membership feels, and that wing commander may bring that opinion to the NB.  Perhaps the NB should seek membership feedback on certain items (such as brand new uniforms) before rolling it out, but really the NB should be effective enough at making their own informed decisions.

[jimmydeanno]

The problem is that it's difficult to focus local-level CAC's to their actual purpose of advisory bodies.  Instead, they often find themselves planning picnics and joint activities or trying to write proposals for ribbons.  Higher level CAC's, such as NCAC, seem to have the right ideas but they also likely benefit from better advisors and more experienced members.

That's just a failure of the senior advisor of the CAC.  The CAC pamphlet specifically says that the CAC isn't the "Cadet Activities Council." (well, not those exact words).  But that's another topic.

But in all honesty, I don't really see the practicality of a senior council.  At the local level, things get run (for the most part) in the focus of what the general membership wants.  They plan what they want to do, do what activites they want to do etc.

It is already the Sq CCs responsibility to speak for his squadron to the closest corporate officer and anyone can draft a proposal to submit - heck, I just did last week in an effort to get a standardized wing Cadet of the quarter cord.  I originally wanted to get approval for just my squadron, but figured - what the heck, get the process done for everyone else at the same time.  My Sq CC forwarded it to the Wing King because he thought it was a great idea.

[Pylon]

The problem is that it's difficult to focus local-level CAC's to their actual purpose of advisory bodies.  Instead, they often find themselves planning picnics and joint activities or trying to write proposals for ribbons.  Higher level CAC's, such as NCAC, seem to have the right ideas but they also likely benefit from better advisors and more experienced members.

That's just a failure of the senior advisor of the CAC.  The CAC pamphlet specifically says that the CAC isn't the "Cadet Activities Council." (well, not those exact words).  But that's another topic.

Absolutely, but it still happens.  A lot.  Regardless of what we know to be the purpose of CAC and what we know the pamphlet says.

I've said time and time again what the original purpose of this discussion community was for, but yet we drift pretty far from that sometimes and I still find myself and the other moderators spending time playing referee for adults.

Intent and how things actually implement are two totally separate things.  We can't get a handful of senior advisors to implement CAC successfully and properly at the lowest levels in many places - how can we expect more from a larger group of seniors?

[RiverAux]

Why reinvent the wheel?

Your Senior Member "CAC" is called your squadron commander.....or his designated alternate attendning wing/group staff meetings.

Hmm, there is a cadet chain of command, so should the cadet advisory councils be eliminated? 

Lets face it, personality issues often will keep higher ups from listening to some individuals, even if they have great ideas.  You get a "well if its Joe Blow's idea, I don't want to hear it", even if Joe Blow is a Squadron Commander.  Having a council sort of spreads responsibility for the idea and vets it among a group of impartial observers before it would get to someone in the chain. 

Yes, the official chain of command is one way to transmit ideas, but it is way too limited.  The squadron members really only see what is happening in their squadron and rarely have opportunities to really get together with their peers to discuss common issues.  A senior advisory council at the group or wing level with 1-2 members from each squadron (none of which should be in Commander or Deputy Commander position) might be helpful.

[Flying Pig]

>>Lets make sure we dont turn this into a thread on CAC.

Regarding "SAC"

As far as a "grassroots" idea.  We have Sq. Commmanders who attend  Group Commanders Call, we have Wing conferences, etc.  We work with other Sq. in our area.  If we want to do a joint training, I pick up the phone and coordinate it.   As an officer, at least here in Ca I feel like I have plenty of resources and contacts without making another trip to a CAP meeting. 

If you cant trust your Sq. Commander to pass on info, what makes you think an SAC rep would be any different in passing on an idea he/she didnt agree with?

[Major Carrales]

As an officer, at least here in Ca I feel like I have plenty of resources and contacts without making another trip to a CAP meeting. 

If you cant trust your Sq. Commander to pass on info, what makes you think an SAC rep would be any different in passing on an idea he/she didnt agree with?

Well, I guess we can assume that all in well in the CAP STATUS QUO and the leadership is listening to the membership.

[Pylon]

Well, I guess we can assume that all in well in the CAP STATUS QUO and the leadership is listening to the membership.

Works fairly well enough for the Air Force.

[Major Carrales]

Well, I guess we can assume that all in well in the CAP STATUS QUO and the leadership is listening to the membership.

Works fairly well enough for the Air Force.

Congrats on joining the USAF!!!  The majority of the rest of us are in CAP...and reality.