Temporary card?

[star1151]

Maybe this is a stupid question and I should know the answer - but I got my membership card in the mail today and it says "Temporary".  Why?

[CAP Producer]

Because your Background Check has not been complete. When that happens you will get a new card.

[star1151]

I thought my membership number showing up in the system meant that my background check was complete.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Nope.  Just a preliminary check based on the name you gave.  They have to check your fingerprints to make sure you are who you say you are, and that you didn't get in trouble under another name.

[star1151]

Nope.  Just a preliminary check based on the name you gave.  They have to check your fingerprints to make sure you are who you say you are, and that you didn't get in trouble under another name.

Ok...so another stupid question.  Does this mean I can't actually participate in any activities until that happens?  This sounds like kind of a strange limbo status to be in.....

[Al Sayre]

No, it means that you must be under the supervision of someone who has completed CPPT and is already approved when around Cadets.

[star1151]

And here I thought it would make more sense to wait until everything was complete....

[JohnKachenmeister]

You're not worried about something, are you?

[star1151]

You're not worried about something, are you?

I've never even had a traffic ticket...actually not something I'm proud of.

So no, not worried, just getting really frustrated with all the slowness and issues that keep popping up.  Not that everything needs to make sense, but this doesn't at all.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Checking fingerprints is a labor-intensive process.  There are lots of fingerprints to check on incoming aliens (the legal ones) and the thousands of persons arrested every day who may be using an identity not their own.  Add to that all the agencies which, like us, need criminal background checks and you have a built-in, many-month delay. 

[star1151]

Eh, maybe it's just me, but I'd rather wait than only be sort of a member.  Just me?  Oh, well.

[floridacyclist]

Nothing is stopping you from staying home until your permanent card arrives...it's that whole "volunteer thing" you know....

Seriously, it's not a big deal. It'll come to pass before too long.

[Stonewall]

Man, if this frustrates you, wait until you get knee deep into the nuts and bolts of CAP.  You ain't seen nothing yet.  Department of Redundancy Department sound familiar?  Hey man, you're working with volunteers and very few paid people.  Not that the prints are under our control, but I'm sure everyone from your commander on up to personnel at Maxwell has done their job.  Consider the "Temporary" card a card of good faith.  You'll be a real member soon young Jedi.  And you'll see, the perks, benifits, pay and uniform allowance just start pouring in.  Nothing like when you're just a temp.  :angel: 

[star1151]

Man, if this frustrates you, wait until you get knee deep into the nuts and bolts of CAP.  You ain't seen nothing yet.

It's not the time, it's getting a card that apparently means zero.  Seems like a really inefficient way to do things...I'm just one of those people who looks for things to make sense.  Maybe I'm in the wrong organization, but I just don't get it.

[jimmydeanno]

I'm sure that the parents of cadets whom you aren't allowed to work with alone appreciate the steps we take to ensure the safety of their children.

The temporary doesn't mean you can't do anything in CAP until it's 'permanent.'  You can still do everything else exept work with cadets alone.  Try completing level 1 and get yourself off to a 'Great Start', by the time you do that, your status should be permanent.

[star1151]

I'm sure that the parents of cadets whom you aren't allowed to work with alone appreciate the steps we take to ensure the safety of their children.

The temporary doesn't mean you can't do anything in CAP until it's 'permanent.'  You can still do everything else exept work with cadets alone.  Try completing level 1 and get yourself off to a 'Great Start', by the time you do that, your status should be permanent.

Trying not to roll my eyes, but as the least maternal woman in the world, I find it laughable they'd think I'd WANT to be around children.  I made sure going into this that I wouldn't have to work with cadets...I just don't know how to interact with children.  Also, as someone who has never broken a rule in her life, I find it extremely offensive for everyone to assume I'm a child abuser unless proven otherwise.  My parents never sat around and worried about who was working with their children, and if the parents of cadets are so worried, maybe they ought to keep their children locked up at home.

Anyway, Level I is done and has been for quite some time.  Why does everyone think it's not?

Screw this.  Obviously I have different priorities than anyone else.

[Stonewall]

Here's the deal.  If you're not working with cadets, then you're totally good to go.  You're getting all worked up over nothing.  It has nothing to do with priorities, it's just the way it is.  It's a priviledge to be in CAP, not a right.  Truth is, it's not a big deal.  Many of us had been cadets before turning senior and even had to get a temporary card.  Consider it a ticket to do things in CAP with a few limitations.  And since you don't care to work with cadets, then those limitations are irrelevant to your situation.

Folks were asking about your completion of Level I because often times there can be a few months from the time someone joins and the time they attend Level I training.  Again, not a big deal, just a few people with different experiences here.

If you've got Level I and your temp ID card, you're no different than any of us, except you can't be one on one with cadets, but again, not an issue.  So go to your meetings, attend ES activities, and sit in at whatever professional development training is being offered in your area.

You're a member, that's the long and short of it.

[SARMedTech]

Man, if this frustrates you, wait until you get knee deep into the nuts and bolts of CAP.  You ain't seen nothing yet.

It's not the time, it's getting a card that apparently means zero.  Seems like a really inefficient way to do things...I'm just one of those people who looks for things to make sense.  Maybe I'm in the wrong organization, but I just don't get it.

We are after all, a military auxiliary. I think the folks with PME will back me up if I say that efficiency is not an option and that resistance to this concept is futile. There are some new cloths out there being made for EMS/ES uniforms particularly things like Fire/EMS turnouts. It protects against some direct contact chemical and quite a few biologicals. The stuff has been around for about 5 years. HLS said they would give any EMS agency grants for coats made with the stuff as long as they had a federal, state or local EMS/ES contract. We applied for the grant and got it. Time from applying for money to getting coats...2.5 years. Its nothing personal its just that theyre from the governement and theyre here to help.

[floridacyclist]

I don't see what's so inefficient...she doesn't want to work with cadets and CAP doesn't want her working alone with cadets for the time being. We seem to all be on the same page, so what's the issue again?

[IceNine]

I don't see what's so inefficient...she doesn't want to work with cadets and CAP doesn't want her working alone with cadets for the time being. We seem to all be on the same page, so what's the issue again?

Patience...

[JohnKachenmeister]

Star 1151:

Let me run this by you.

I was a cop for 25 years.  Child molesters are a sneaky, insidious bunch of bastards.  They have web sites where they share information about how to get close to kids and rape them.  Don't forget, John Wayne Gacy, a crazed homosexual murderer, worked as a clown at children's parties. 

It is in our interest to keep these people out of our organization, and to protect our cadets.  It is basic to any military organization that a commander does what he can to take care of is people, and keeping child molesters out of CAP comes under that heading.

So, we do a background investigation on EVERY officer coming in.  But...

Let's just say that there is some slick little pervert out there that uses a phony middle initial, or changes the spelling of his name when he joins.  Or maybe this pervert was arrested in another state and used a phony name there.  A name check will come back with "No record."  The FBI will, however, match his fingerprints eventually.

This is not some "Theory."  In my group we had a sharp new officer report in, saying he wanted to work with cadets.  He was a former cadet himself, and had served in the Army as an enlisted fellow.  His initial background check was favorable.

Later we learned that he had been convicted of some nasty charges involving abuse of children at a court-martial.  Court martials and military confinement records are separate from civilian criminal records.  The FBI picked it up for us, and the dude was gone within hours.

IF we had let this guy have unsupervised access to cadets, one or more of our cadets could have had a serious problem.  And then WE would have had a serious problem.

I am sorry if you feel offended by our screening process.  But given the choice of protecting our cadets versus you being offended enough to quit, we will miss you.  Bye.

[Al Sayre]

The last 5 or 6 new Officers to join my squadron received their regular CAPID about 1-2 weeks after they got their temporary...  

[Sgt. Savage]

Error, Error


60-3 says you can't have access to the ICP during a mission if you don't have a permenant card. The BI is for mare than just cadet protection, it also protects sensitive operations and communications information.

[floridacyclist]

Good point, in which case refer to my first post. If you don't think you should be allowed any kind of partial membership until your investigation is complete, don't go to any meetings or events until you get your permanent card. Otherwise, go to what you can, learn what you can in the meantime, and wait for the day that you have full membership. Your choice.

I wonder if temporary membership status is reflected on the online 101 card....is it possible for it to show a GES rating if the person is not totally approved for it yet? How about in MIMs? If not, this might be something to mention to our MSA types to check on new members checking into mission base, ie permanent vs temporary. I've never heard it before although you're right about it being there in the reg.

[Al Sayre]

Probably hasn't come up very often up until recently, you would have your permenant card long before you ever got level one complete to be GES qualified...

[Lancer]

Screw this.  Obviously I have different priorities than anyone else.

So can I ask why you joined CAP?

I understand you're anxious to get going, but this attitude we're all sensing from you, as you've got to understand, has a few, if not all of us a little befuddled. 

Sure you can do a lot in CAP without working directly with cadets, but like it or not, CAP is CP (Cadet Programs) focused. Like it or not, at some point in your CAP career your going to be around cadets and will need to know how to function along side them; be it a mission, practice or otherwise, a wing conference etc.

If I were you, I'd use this as an opportunity to 'learn' how to interact with these 'children', I think you would be surprised by what some of them are capable of, and may even teach you a thing or two. 

As an aside...
I agree that sending out a card that denotes temporary status a bit of a waste, but I don't work at Maxwell. A simple welcome letter or e-mail would suffice in this regard.

[davedove]

Sure you can do a lot in CAP without working directly with cadets, but like it or not, CAP is CP (Cadet Programs) focused. Like it or not, at some point in your CAP career your going to be around cadets and will need to know how to function along side them; be it a mission, practice or otherwise, a wing conference etc.

If I were you, I'd use this as an opportunity to 'learn' how to interact with these 'children', I think you would be surprised by what some of them are capable of, and may even teach you a thing or two. 

Most definitely.  The cadets in CAP tend to be among the best and brightest young people in the community.

[floridacyclist]

Trying not to roll my eyes, but as the least maternal woman in the world, I find it laughable they'd think I'd WANT to be around children.  I made sure going into this that I wouldn't have to work with cadets...I just don't know how to interact with children.  Also, as someone who has never broken a rule in her life, I find it extremely offensive for everyone to assume I'm a child abuser unless proven otherwise.  My parents never sat around and worried about who was working with their children, and if the parents of cadets are so worried, maybe they ought to keep their children locked up at home.

We all had to go through the background check, so none of us are any different. At least I can look parents in the eye and tell them that nobody will be allowed alone with their children without an FBI background check.

I am torn here....on the one hand, you talk about "maternal instincts"...nobody would ask you to be a mother to their children. The relationship with cadets is not a parental one, it is a professional one, especially if you are not in their chain of command. In short, your lack of maternal instincts should mean nothing; if you end up in charge of cadets (say as a ground team leader), don't treat them like a mommy, just treat them as subordinates. Professionalism and mutual respect go a long way here.

On the other hand, many jobs in CAP will require folks to work around cadets even though it is not their primary job description, and the only way to avoid this situation is to avoid all contact with cadet or composite squadrons or joint activities with those types of units. In your case, I sensed more than the average "I'm not really a kid person" to something bordering on an active dislike for young people; you yourself said that you made sure that you would not have to work with kids.  Sorry, but CP is one of our main missions, and even so cadets are heavily involved in our other missions as well.

I find myself fighting a constant battle for cadet involvement in ES, not with folks above but with those at my level and lower...especially those who are not involved in ES. There seems to be a movement to shuffle cadets out of ES, even though ES is one of the few things that set us apart from say JROTC, Sea Cadets, or Young Marines. I  have had several people tell me that "it is in the regulations" or "it is wing policy" that cadets can not participate in any ES mission that may involve an actual missing aircraft or real disaster response, yet nobody can show me where it says that in black and white. Usually the conversation ends with me showing them first the section in 60-3 addressing cadets in ES, the sections in the GTL Task guide where it discusses the steps to be taken to avoid unnecessarily exposing younger cadets to inappropriate scenes (under "take actions on locating a find") then an email from Col Desmarais reaffirming that cadets are welcome in appropriate ES roles....but I doubt it changes their minds. I also doubt that having an anti-cadet person in ES will help in this situation.

Not saying that you are anti-cadet, and if you are not, then what I am saying does not apply; it is very possible that I misread your statements regarding your feelings toward youth. Having an anti-cadet person anywhere in CAP is not something I would be comfortable with. Have you ever considered the Coast Guard Auxiliary since they don't have a cadet program? You just may be right about having different priorities than the rest of us.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well said, Gene.

Star:

Some of my best and most rewarding moments in CAP come from watching a 14 or 15 year old fellow develop into a leader.  It sure as heck isn't a "Maternal instinct" with me, since I am in the business of training air warriors. Watching a bumbling teenager turn into a warrior and leader; watching someone who normally needs a written permission slip to go to the bathroom take charge of a group and carry out his orders, is something that fills my heart with pride.

I owe a lot to CAP, and it is a debt I repay every time I go to duty.  Had it not been for the cadet program back in the 60's, I am certain I would be in prison now instead of in a half-million dollar house in Florida. 
 
Don't dismiss the cadet program before you even learn what it is they do.

[JohnKachenmeister]

And Star:

We save maybe 50 lives a year on average in the Emergency Services program.

We save a lot more lives through the cadet program.

[LtCol Hooligan]

I made sure going into this that I wouldn't have to work with cadets...I just don't know how to interact with children.  Also, as someone who has never broken a rule in her life, I find it extremely offensive for everyone to assume I'm a child abuser unless proven otherwise.  My parents never sat around and worried about who was working with their children, and if the parents of cadets are so worried, maybe they ought to keep their children locked up at home.

This is really bothersome on several levels.  I know we have beat her comments like a dead horse, but it really makes me worried.  The first is that even if you join a Senior Squadron in the middle of nowhere and all you do is fly a plane, you will work with cadets.  Cadets have been a part of our organization for years, and I sincerely hope they always will be.  Anyone that tells a potential member they will never have to work with cadets is down right lying to them.  Every officer will have to work with cadets and around cadets at some point in time, unless all you do is sit in the corner during meetings and maybe go fly the plane to put on cheap hours.  Then, I question your value to CAP.  Hard words I know, but in my opinion, true ones.  Cadets are a part of our team in aerospace, ES, and our daily operations.  Officers fly them for o'rides, they work beside them on the radios, and they even go out in the rain, sleet and snow to search on the ground to meet the missions of CAP.  Eventually, an aircrew will have to work with a ground team and be involved with cadets in some way or another.  Telling a new member they will never have to work with cadets is like telling a cadet they will never have to listen to an officer.  It ain't gonna happen.

And if you believe your parents never worried about the adults who were around you, I wish I lived on that silver cloud.  Welcome to the 21st century where now we keep pedophiles from our schools and terrorists out of our planes.  This is reality now and I would have concerns for any organization that lets members join and work with children without doing a background check on their members.  I know this is cliche, but just watch Dateline's to Catch a Predator sometime.  Many of the men on there are teachers, ministers, youth counselors, etc. who look like the average Joe.  Your pervert detector is not going to go off around them until it is too late.  Thank you CAP and all the members for keep our youth safe and making it hard for those people to get access to the teenagers we train and mentor on a weekly basis.  It is our job to protect them.

End Rant....

[Stonewall]

Um, folks.  I don't think Star is with us any longer.  Remember the whole "screw it" statement.  Haven't seen her post in 2 days.  So she's basically getting people worked up and she's not around.  That's kind of powerful if you think about it.

[floridacyclist]

A single tear rolls down my cheek.

[LtCol Hooligan]

I miss her already...

[ColonelJack]

I miss her already...

Yeah.   She was cute.

Jack

[RogueLeader]

I miss her already...

Yeah.   She was cute.

Jack

Oh dear. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[floridacyclist]

If you get bored, go to her profile and read all of her posts one after the other...interesting to see them all in context.

[JCJ]

If you get bored, go to her profile and read all of her posts one after the other...interesting to see them all in context.

Did it.

Golly!

[Major Carrales]

Now, now folks...you may have driven someone away.  Let's reflect on that a moment...








OK, now, as I see it there were two main issues in this thread...

1) Waste of money issuing Temporary Cards

2) CAP's screening process

and one Ancillary one...

CAP officers that do not want to work with cadets.


As to the first issues, 1) CAP should issue the initial membership card only when they approve membership.  The interim one being a number or printed out form from national.  This would serve the same purpose as the temp ID, plus, it would clearly demonstrate that a members was not yet fully in.

2) The Cadet Protection policy and the Screening Policy are actually really unrelated.  The former prevents wanted criminals and felons from entering CAP.  The Cadet Protection Program creates a culture where we identify this serious crime and maintain a look out for those that might harm our children.

As for the last issue, I cannot agree. I have said many times that I believe in the WHOLE CAP APPROACH, where a member joins the CAP...not merely some part or department of CAP. 

Bit of a rant...danger HYPERBOLE approacheth
Cadets are a clear part of the equation. As such (in my mind), CADETS are equal members to CAP OFFICERS.  Yes, they are restricted in things they can do...certain things...but our stated goal is to build citizens (not create "second class citizens)  From Cadet ES to O-Flights (and other character building elements) the whole unit must be behind it.

If you join a CAP unit, the Cadets of that unit (and all of CAP) are your brother and sister airmen.  The worst thing I ever saw at a SARex was when some Lt Col from another part of our Wing showed up and, upon seeing cadets manning radios and preparing to go on a UDF mission, said "what the hell are all these [darn] kids doing around here!"

If we train them right, they are a part of the system.  If that had been today...and I had been the IC...I would have pulled the Flight Suited Lt Col out of the Aircrew mission briefing and, since he demanded the cadets be away from the Radio and UDF team (key parts of the mission), placed his arse on that radio for some MRO training and then on Ground Teams the rest of the time.  The former would allow him to continue the Mission radio and maintain communications between the Staging area and air/ground teams and the latter would make him a key part of the coordination between the aircrew and the UDF team on the ground...all roles he did not have to do because of CADET manpower.

That's a bit of hypebole, but it does illustrate that Cadets can and do serve important functions in ES, albeit supervised.  Those that look down at them as "second class CAP members" or use them as "manservants" are doing them a discredit.

[JohnKachenmeister]

We have driven someone away.

Our cruel words have offended a new member.

Let us reflect upon our conduct...
















OK, that's enough.

I STILL can't work up to a "Care."

Sorry.

Anyway, how about them ABU's?  What color tapes you think we'll get?

[IceNine]

 :clap:

[shorning]

We have driven someone away.

Our cruel words have offended a new member.

Let us reflect upon our conduct...

OK, that's enough.

I STILL can't work up to a "Care."

Sorry.

Anyway, how about them ABU's?  What color tapes you think we'll get?

And...

:clap:

...amongst other comments.

Way to represent the organization gentlemen.  No, I don't condone the comments or attitude that star1151 expressed, but I don't think we should be rejoicing the fact that we've managed to alienate a fellow officer.  Is that how officers behave?  Is that the standard we should aim for?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Sorry.

But we gave her the truth, in a reasoned format, complete with explanations.

She is the one who took her toys and went home when she couldn't have it her way.

[shorning]

Sorry.

But we gave her the truth, in a reasoned format, complete with explanations.

She is the one who took her toys and went home when she couldn't have it her way.

And that gives us the right to relish that fact?  Is this what it mean to be "military" in CAP?

[MIKE]

Stick a fork in this thread... Nice going guys...