When do I get to be a 2LT?

[SARMedTech]

As an EMT you could be appointed a 2d Lt. As a Health Services Officer (the title 'Medical Officer' and 'Nurse Officer' applies only to licensed doctors and nurses), you can get promoted only by serving time-in-grade, without the  professional development requirements. However, I would recommend that the professional development not be skipped.

Actually, to be specific, just being an EMT won't get him any rank.  It clearly specifies that he would have to be a paramedic to get 2d Lt.

Actually, EMT gets 2d Lt. Source: CAPR 35-5, Figure 6.

Licensed practical or vocational nurse, paramedic, EMT
or other health technician

emphasis mine

Thanks for that arajca. I understood and believed I had read the regs as you pointed them out and aside from that, even if it didnt say EMT, it does say other health related technician which is a broad enough regulation that it could take in  lab techs, CNAs (now called patient care techs), xray techs and the list goes on. Aside from that, yet again, it has been explained to me that as far as the "rating" for an EMT goes an EMT-Basic is technician rated, an intermediate (a classification within EMS which will soon go the way of the dodo bird since it is only a stones throw away from being a paramedic) would be senior and a paramedic would be master rating. Not to get bling crazy, but from what I can tell, the EMS insignia, whether cloth or metal, is the same for all three levels of EMTs. Ive heard somewhere that there are different blings, but have yet to see only the one which I currently have, both in the cloth and metal version. If there are others out there say as there are for GT that start to incorporate stars, etc, I have yet to see one. We have a paramedic in my unit and he wears the same insignia I do

[brasda91]

I have been told  that because of my status as an EMT, that when I actually get a grade instead of "SM" that I could go past 2d Lt and right to 1st Lt. Is anyone familiar with this happening or if it is regulation. I have completed and am completing alot of testing in the coming weeks and just wondered. I know there are special promotion circumstances for professionals whose skills might be off some use to CAP. I cant find the regs, but any info would be appreciated.

Health Service Professional, (CAPR 160-1), 2d Lt
Sixty hours of study beyond high school
Licensed practical or vocational nurse, paramedic, EMT
or other health technician

[SARMedTech]

As an EMT you could be appointed a 2d Lt. As a Health Services Officer (the title 'Medical Officer' and 'Nurse Officer' applies only to licensed doctors and nurses), you can get promoted only by serving time-in-grade, without the  professional development requirements. However, I would recommend that the professional development not be skipped.

Actually, to be specific, just being an EMT won't get him any rank.  It clearly specifies that he would have to be a paramedic to get 2d Lt.

Furthermore, since a Paramedic is an EMT (NREMT-P or EMT-P) it would be very hard for CAP to distinguish that one "flavor" of EMT gets the grade and the others dont. As I say, Intermediate according to all sources, is on its way out, but you didnt even mention that.

[jb512]

As an EMT you could be appointed a 2d Lt. As a Health Services Officer (the title 'Medical Officer' and 'Nurse Officer' applies only to licensed doctors and nurses), you can get promoted only by serving time-in-grade, without the  professional development requirements. However, I would recommend that the professional development not be skipped.

Actually, to be specific, just being an EMT won't get him any rank.  It clearly specifies that he would have to be a paramedic to get 2d Lt.

Actually, EMT gets 2d Lt. Source: CAPR 35-5, Figure 6.

Licensed practical or vocational nurse, paramedic, EMT
or other health technician

emphasis mine

That's a different quote than the one above... my mistake then.  The quote above doesn't have "EMT" in it, but it does say "other health technician....

My bad.

[RiverAux]

Typically senior squadrons or the senior side of a composite squadron only meet twice a month. 

[capchiro]

Actually, our squadron does meet weekly and what I was referring to was a member that had only come to 6-12 meetings, ie, 1 1/2 to 3 months, and the commander not knowing him well enough to endorse or recommend him for promotion.  24 meetings would equal 6 months and that is usually when these promotions go through and that is about the time that most commanders feel comfortable enough to endorse their promotions.  Promotions always begin with the unit commander and until he feels comfortable with the endorsement/recommendation, it won't happen.  No one on this board knows anything other than what this member has relayed to us.  His commander may have information that we are not privy to or even just a "gut feeling" about it.  That is his job and National/Wing trusts him, so it is not enough for us to second guess his reasoning and try to stir this member into some type of frenzy about how he can push his way around with the Reg's.  Even if he were right, and he made a big enough stink about his promotion, he would certainly classify himself in the circle of CAP and it wouldn't be forgotten.  My advice, calm down, and if you have a question about the Reg's and your promotion, calmly go to your commander and ask him to explain his reasoning or his interpretation of the Reg's to you.  DON'T go to him and tell him that the "boys" on Captalk said he is wrong and he has to promote you..

[RogueLeader]

Doing said "CapTalk boys said so" would likely cause him to "lose" your promotion paperwork or "forget" to put it in online. If he does, there is really nothing you can do about it.

[SARMedTech]

Doing said "CapTalk boys said so" would likely cause him to "lose" your promotion paperwork or "forget" to put it in online. If he does, there is really nothing you can do about it.

And one would likely find themselves looking at planes taking off and landing rather than flying them. Never P.O. the Commanding Officer or the Supply Guy.

[Nomex Maximus]

Oh, by the way... I am also trained as an EMT. Yep, yessirree bob, got my EMT training at Western Illinois University in 1980. Never used it, but I got it. Ready to use it anytime.

[Nomex Maximus]

...and now that I think about it, I have 47 semester hours of seminary completed from way back when... I could be a Chaplain too!

...and if I just got around to reading one or two of the books on my shelf here I could probably pass the General Radiotelephone Operator FCC test and qualify as a radio technician. But that would actually take work...

[SARMedTech]

Oh, by the way... I am also trained as an EMT. Yep, yessirree bob, got my EMT training at Western Illinois University in 1980. Never used it, but I got it. Ready to use it anytime.

Do you live in IL? Have you maintained your EMT currency both at the state and National Registry Level? Im sorry you didnt get the answer you were looking for but there really is no reason to get snippy. Especially in the presence of those of us who do that job everyday and every weekend with a gun on our hips. Be patient. Youll get your little bars soon enough.

[Nomex Maximus]

Oh, by the way... I am also trained as an EMT. Yep, yessirree bob, got my EMT training at Western Illinois University in 1980. Never used it, but I got it. Ready to use it anytime.

Do you live in IL? Have you maintained your EMT currency both at the state and National Registry Level? Im sorry you didnt get the answer you were looking for but there really is no reason to get snippy. Especially in the presence of those of us who do that job everyday and every weekend with a gun on our hips. Be patient. Youll get your little bars soon enough.

[HAHAFUNNYJOKE]

IT's A YOKE!!! You KNOW a YOLK!!! I AM PULLIN YOU ALLS LEGS. GIT IT? HEHE HEHE hehe... *ahem*

Really, the whole thread was just for fun... I'm not here to wear a uniform or to act like I'm Real Military. I am just here to try and be ready help out in the next emergency. The whole rank thing is sort of a curious novelty to me... in my unit, we have a squadron commander who is a captain, and his mother (also in the unit) outranks him and did, in fact, teach him to fly. And then there are the fifty year members and the LTCs... and everyone wears the most causal uniform - the golf shirts.

I am just saying, since I had to go and read all these fine manuals that it seemed to me that I should get a 2LT because I am a pilot. As for being committed enough, well, the guy who joined with me three months ago has not been seen in the last two months. So I think I have shown a reasonable amount of committment.

"a gun on your hip"? Oh, well, I also was a cop too once a long time ago... I know I don't get a promotion for that, but could I at least maybe get an affectionate kiss on the forehead?

[/HAHAFUNNYJOKE]

[RiverAux]

Seems to me that we've got a few charter members of the good-old boys club here who feel threatened when new people join the unit.  Typically these sorts of folks do everything they can to keep the new people out of the loop, including not informing them of opportunities open to them and "forgetting" to tell them about items in the regulations that would benefit the new member.   

Making a big deal over giving somebody (who meets the specific requirements in the regs) a 2LT promotion a few months ahead of time in order to make sure they are "worthy" is right out of the playbook.  The hallmark of the GOB is making the new member jump through hoops that aren't actually in the regs as a way of throwing barriers in their path.   

[Nomex Maximus]

Riveraux -

I think it's just that my squadron commander either doesn't know about the reg, or does not agree with my interpretation, or -most likely- just doesn't have the time to do the extra paperwork and doesn't see the need.

[jb512]

Oh, by the way... I am also trained as an EMT. Yep, yessirree bob, got my EMT training at Western Illinois University in 1980. Never used it, but I got it. Ready to use it anytime.

Do you live in IL? Have you maintained your EMT currency both at the state and National Registry Level? Im sorry you didnt get the answer you were looking for but there really is no reason to get snippy. Especially in the presence of those of us who do that job everyday and every weekend with a gun on our hips. Be patient. Youll get your little bars soon enough.

[HAHAFUNNYJOKE]

IT's A YOKE!!! You KNOW a YOLK!!! I AM PULLIN YOU ALLS LEGS. GIT IT? HEHE HEHE hehe... *ahem*

Really, the whole thread was just for fun... I'm not here to wear a uniform or to act like I'm Real Military. I am just here to try and be ready help out in the next emergency. The whole rank thing is sort of a curious novelty to me... in my unit, we have a squadron commander who is a captain, and his mother (also in the unit) outranks him and did, in fact, teach him to fly. And then there are the fifty year members and the LTCs... and everyone wears the most causal uniform - the golf shirts.

I am just saying, since I had to go and read all these fine manuals that it seemed to me that I should get a 2LT because I am a pilot. As for being committed enough, well, the guy who joined with me three months ago has not been seen in the last two months. So I think I have shown a reasonable amount of committment.

"a gun on your hip"? Oh, well, I also was a cop too once a long time ago...

[/HAHAFUNNYJOKE]

Oh, don't let this place get to ya.  I understand your anxiousness to promote, as I was the same way with my placement because of prior cadet service.  I think that special skills brought to the organization and the recognition of them is to be commended, not brushed off.

We are not the Real Military (hereafter referred to as "RM") and although we can wear a RM uniform, our rank does not signify the same thing.  What it does show is a person's qualifications and position in our organization.  No one (although there are exceptions) is trying to act like they are something that they aren't.

Don't be afraid to submit for something that you qualify for because it's there for a reason.  Similar to the RM, we have rank to maintain structure and a chain of command and it works quite well.  I'm quite proud of my "little bars" because they mean something to me.

[SARMedTech]

Oh, by the way... I am also trained as an EMT. Yep, yessirree bob, got my EMT training at Western Illinois University in 1980. Never used it, but I got it. Ready to use it anytime.

Do you live in IL? Have you maintained your EMT currency both at the state and National Registry Level? Im sorry you didnt get the answer you were looking for but there really is no reason to get snippy. Especially in the presence of those of us who do that job everyday and every weekend with a gun on our hips. Be patient. Youll get your little bars soon enough.

[HAHAFUNNYJOKE]

IT's A YOKE!!! You KNOW a YOLK!!! I AM PULLIN YOU ALLS LEGS. GIT IT? HEHE HEHE hehe... *ahem*

Really, the whole thread was just for fun... I'm not here to wear a uniform or to act like I'm Real Military. I am just here to try and be ready help out in the next emergency. The whole rank thing is sort of a curious novelty to me... in my unit, we have a squadron commander who is a captain, and his mother (also in the unit) outranks him and did, in fact, teach him to fly. And then there are the fifty year members and the LTCs... and everyone wears the most causal uniform - the golf shirts.

I am just saying, since I had to go and read all these fine manuals that it seemed to me that I should get a 2LT because I am a pilot. As for being committed enough, well, the guy who joined with me three months ago has not been seen in the last two months. So I think I have shown a reasonable amount of committment.

"a gun on your hip"? Oh, well, I also was a cop too once a long time ago... I know I don't get a promotion for that, but could I at least maybe get an affectionate kiss on the forehead?

[/HAHAFUNNYJOKE]

Just to be clear, though I said I carry a gun, I am not a LEO. I work for a private security company and am  in the process of working with them to start a TacMed asset for their company. My dad was a LEO for 37 years and I dont want to not say anything and by my act of omission have people think I am passing myself off as a LEO. I am an armed EMT. Just wanted to be clear so people didnt think I was holding myself out as something I am not. I have however decided that my new duty weapon will be the Springfield XD .40. Ive read about it, put a few rounds through it, several boxes actually, and am in love with it. So as soon as I get the cash or the agency coughs up the dough, I will be getting one. A sweet little shooter. Not to hijack but I predict, as someone else did to me today, that the XD will replace the Glock as the LE weapon of choice as well it should since it is far superior in every aspect.

[sandman]

Seems to me that we've got a few charter members of the good-old boys club here who feel threatened when new people join the unit.  Typically these sorts of folks do everything they can to keep the new people out of the loop, including not informing them of opportunities open to them and "forgetting" to tell them about items in the regulations that would benefit the new member.   

Making a big deal over giving somebody (who meets the specific requirements in the regs) a 2LT promotion a few months ahead of time in order to make sure they are "worthy" is right out of the playbook.  The hallmark of the GOB is making the new member jump through hoops that aren't actually in the regs as a way of throwing barriers in their path.   

Good points!

There really should be no reason to hold back a "promotion" if the member is authorized by regs to be advanced to that grade save for outright disrespect to a commander.

Those commanders who desire to dely an advancement really are in effect telling a potentially good volunteer to go find another volunteer organization to join. Membership declines and recruitment / retention suffers.

Who cares if you advance someone to Lt Col? Your position as a 2 Lt squadron Commander trumps that Lt Col anyway....realize that you (the O-1 squadron commander, for example) are in command. It's about positional authority.

I feel that we have too much of a hang up on wearing rank insignia. My rank insignia is a federal commission which outranks TP himself, your rank insignia....is meaningless... in the real world

So, squadron commanders, look at your people, find out who's qualified for promotion, and immediatly put in the paperwork...don't be one of the "good 'ol boys" who wants to be revered, feared, and saluted just because you have the power to hold back a promotion because you feel like it or you get a kick out of making someone suffer. Remember, the higher the rank (or position) you achieve, the more of a servant you should become... :angel:

[sandman]

Doing said "CapTalk boys said so" would likely cause him to "lose" your promotion paperwork or "forget" to put it in online. If he does, there is really nothing you can do about it.

And one would likely find themselves looking at planes taking off and landing rather than flying them. Never P.O. the Commanding Officer or the Supply Guy.

Make copies, document all related conversations, then discuss with wing...region...national...then real Air Force liason and ensure that the squadron commander gets fired.

Call me and I will show you how easy it has been to fire a squadron commander for stupid stuff like this.

The key is document, document, document. Ensure that your arguement is rock solid. It's also helpful if you're not a real snot to everybody

Same goes for Suppo....

[arajca]

Doing said "CapTalk boys said so" would likely cause him to "lose" your promotion paperwork or "forget" to put it in online. If he does, there is really nothing you can do about it.

And one would likely find themselves looking at planes taking off and landing rather than flying them. Never P.O. the Commanding Officer or the Supply Guy.

Make copies, document all related conversations, then discuss with wing...region...national...then real Air Force liason and ensure that the squadron commander gets fired.

Call me and I will show you how easy it has been to fire a squadron commander for stupid stuff like this.

The key is document, document, document. Ensure that your arguement is rock solid. It's also helpful if you're not a real snot to everybody

Same goes for Suppo....

And by the time you do all this, your six months will be up and you'll be a 2d Lt anyway. Pursuing it farther will get you labeled as a troublemaker and since you are so familiar with the regs, the PTB will ensure everything you do or want is 100% reg compliant. The little things that some folks let slide  - such a new pilot/observer wearing wings before they are properly authorized - won't slide. 

[SARMedTech]

Doing said "CapTalk boys said so" would likely cause him to "lose" your promotion paperwork or "forget" to put it in online. If he does, there is really nothing you can do about it.

And one would likely find themselves looking at planes taking off and landing rather than flying them. Never P.O. the Commanding Officer or the Supply Guy.

Make copies, document all related conversations, then discuss with wing...region...national...then real Air Force liason and ensure that the squadron commander gets fired.

Call me and I will show you how easy it has been to fire a squadron commander for stupid stuff like this.

The key is document, document, document. Ensure that your arguement is rock solid. It's also helpful if you're not a real snot to everybody

Same goes for Suppo....

And by the time you do all this, your six months will be up and you'll be a 2d Lt anyway. Pursuing it farther will get you labeled as a troublemaker and since you are so familiar with the regs, the PTB will ensure everything you do or want is 100% reg compliant. The little things that some folks let slide  - such a new pilot/observer wearing wings before they are properly authorized - won't slide. 

In EMS, its called "getting the stink." Once you get the reputation for being the one that comes in, wants to do things outside the regs, wants to get all high speed, you find yourself transporting old ladies in a wheelchair van so they can get their groceries. As I said before, my biggest concern would be getting all of your pilot quals, etc and then going to the absolute basement-bottom of the mission pilot list, watching all the other patient, non-pushy pilots fly.