When do I get to be a 2LT?

[Nomex Maximus]

I am not clear - I am a new senior member and a pilot (will take the form 5 checkride within two weeks) and I have completed all the initial training to be a scanner. I am not clear should I be eligible for promotion now, or do I have to wait for my six month anniversary?

[Becks]

Have you completed Level 1? Wait 6 months after that

[RiverAux]

If he is a private pilot he is eligible for promotion to 2nd Lt immediately after completing Level 1 and CPPT.  CAPR 35-5 Section 22. 

[Flying Pig]

....and, if your a Commercial or Instrument rated pilot you rate 1st Lt.  If your a CFI or ATP you get Capt.

YAHOOOOOOO

[Nomex Maximus]

If he is a private pilot he is eligible for promotion to 2nd Lt immediately after completing Level 1 and CPPT.  CAPR 35-5 Section 22. 

That's what I thought. I mentioned this to my squadron commander but I think he is just going to wait until the six months is up in October. I get the impression that most people take a year or so to get qualified in ES, so I am sorting rushing things getting qualified in three months.  

[Becks]

Aaaand if the Sqd commander feels you are ready to be a 2Lt, he does not have to give you any advanced placement.

[capchiro]

What is with all of the new guys wanting rank immediately?  It would be nice if they showed their intentions first.  And while we are at it, There is a retired real Air Force General that works with cadets and the glider program becaue he loves to fly, he loves the program and he is full of enthusiasm and the cadets love him.  His rank in the CAP, Lt.Col. of course.  Now, if anybody has a gripe it's him.  So quit your bellyaching and enjoy the program or go away..   

[Nomex Maximus]

What is with all of the new guys wanting rank immediately?  . . . So quit your bellyaching and enjoy the program or go away..   

WWWWEEEELLLLLLL EXXXXXXX-UUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSEEEEEEE MMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

I guess the regs are just there for show.

[SARMedTech]

What is with all of the new guys wanting rank immediately?  . . . So quit your bellyaching and enjoy the program or go away..   

WWWWEEEELLLLLLL EXXXXXXX-UUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSEEEEEEE MMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

I guess the regs are just there for show.

Actually theyre not. Have you been in six months yet? The way I read the regs, thats just as much a requirement as fulfilling the quals. We have a few new SMs that came in when I did that are asking the same kinds of questions: can I wear the command scarf, when do i make 2d Lt...just go with it man...if you joined for the rank and the trappings of rank, you wont last very long because from what Ive heard, after you make 1st Lt. you could be waiting around awhile. Ive been told that being an EMT might push me up the chain a little faster, but I am still but a lowly SM, slogging my way through quals and quite enjoying myself. Theres alot to learn...I personally got into CAP because of my passion for ES and SAR and the like and am happy to have a place to learn it all, in a supportive environment that doesnt cost me an arm and a leg (if you think CAP can get expensive, try to get the kinds of qualifications you are getting in CAP through another organization...it will take you forever and cost you a mint).

PS-

I dont mean to be a hard a*& about it, its just that there are alot of folks I know that are more concerned with getting the trappings of rank and command scarves and patches then when they are truly qualified to hold rank. It just gets a little tiring. You havent been in that long..enjoy the ride, GI.

[capchiro]

Oh, by the way, you forgot the "c" in excuse..

[star1151]

What is with all of the new guys wanting rank immediately?   

I didn't get that he wanted it immediately, but was just asking what the actual timeline was.  As another person who just joined, it seems a little confusing to me, too.  Personally, as long as I get to be around small airplanes, I don't care, but I hate the uncertainty of how this whole thing works.

[MIKE]

IIRC therre is a nice little chart in CAPR 50-17 that you should check out.

[RiverAux]

Actually theyre not. Have you been in six months yet? The way I read the regs, thats just as much a requirement as fulfilling the quals.

Please read the regulation I cited before making such statements.  He is not required to wait 6 months for one of these special initial grade advancements.  Just complete Level 1 and CPPT.  Now, his squadron commander is not required to recommend him for the initial promotion, but I see no need to wait.  

[capchiro]

It's up to the squadron commander's discretion as to whether the member should be promoted or not.  Most commander's don't feel like they have a good grasp as to the member's qualifications and quality in as few as 6-12 meetings, each of maybe 2 hours or so.  Plus the regulations also require that a member be working at his specialty and contributing to the squadron prior to promotion.  Most commanders have had experience with flash in the pan new members that come in and look really, really good in the beginning and then turn out to be duds that want to stand around and hanger fly throughout the meeting.  There is nothing like giving some young hotshot CFI or Ham or whatever (and no slam intended) Captain rank and then having the Wing commander calling and wanting to know who this guy is and why he is causing problems with the local PX, Officer's Club, Police Department, local FBO, and yet I could go on.  Believe it or not, this is a well organized organization and the rules have been this way for a long time and rightly so.  You might get someone to tell you about the story of CAP and the National Commander that promoted himself to two star general illegally and caused everyone to have to wear maroon epaulets for punishment for years. 

[RiverAux]

This fellow is going to get his form 5 in a few weeks and is already in scanner training.  To my mind he is showing an interest in the program and should be promoted.  If he was just attending meetings, not saying a word, and then going home, yes, then it might be justifiable not to give him the initial grade appointment. 

What else do you expect a new member to be doing to "earn" his commander's recommendation for the promotion he is qualified for according to the regs?

Personally, I say we have way too many initial grade appointment opportunities, but there is no justifiable reason to deny them while they are available in the regs.

[Camas]

I've posted this elsewhere but many squadron commanders will be looking for enthusiasm, dedication to the program, teamwork and attitude.  Show your commander you have these qualities and I'm sure he'll promote you in due time.  May I safely assume you've done your Level I training including CPPT and OPSEC?

You've made no mention of your ES qualifications but you might do well to consider getting your GES testing behind you along with SET as well.  Ask your ES officer for assistance.  Then you'll want to become a mission pilot; I won't bore you with the details here.  There are a number of resources available for you to utilize including CAPR 60-1 and 60-3.

[RiverAux]

Did you read his post?  He has completed the scanner initial requirements, which means he has completed GES, which means he has completed Level 1 and CPPT.

[capchiro]

Again, it is a commander's call and the commander in recommending him for promotion is saying that he vouches for the quality of the member and his ability to act as an officer.  By stating that he has completed his initial scanner training, he is not actually stating anything.  Initial scanner training maybe nothing more than the first part, which is the GES test.  He may or may not have gone beyond that.  By saying that he has completed Level 1 and CPPT, means very little since these are now online and not necessarily at the squadron.  By stating that he will be taking his Form 5 check ride in a couple of weeks means nothing also.  He may have the ride scheduled and he may or may not pass it.  He may get weathered out and not get to reschedule for a couple of months.  Most commanders are a little leary of someone that is too gung ho, and sometimes for a lot of good reasons.  The first thing any member in CAP needs to learn is a modicum of patience.  CAP is manned by volunteers and things take time.  OTS in the AF takes 90 days of heavy training and constant evaluation by the training personnel.  I think most commanders desire a period of time to evaluate new personnel before they put their John Hancock on the line.  There is a lot to learn in CAP to be functional.  There are many forms to be filled out everytime an AC goes up.  Since we are not full time, it takes time.   Let the system work..     

[Nomex Maximus]

Oh, by the way, you forgot the "c" in excuse..

If you listen to how Steve Martin said it, he said it without the "c".

[capchiro]

What, are we two wild and crazy guys or what??