CAP Officer Rank

[Potomac Grays]

After over thirty years state and federal service, I joined CAP.

I was delighted to discover that I am eligible for CAP rank equivalent to that of my prior federal service. 

However, Wing Commander Policy (I am told) is no CAP rank be granted to a new Senior member for six months.  State military forces grant immediate recognising of prior service, be it federal or in another state. 

I don't want to "run the show" or take over, the folks in CAP are doing a great job, but starting out again as a "Boot Recruit" is just a tad annoying.

Seems to me CAP could do the same as the State forces, it might even be good for recruiting!

Just a thought...

[RogueLeader]

Part of it is to get you your initial CAP training such as the Foundations Course- you should have no problem with it- and the CPPT. Neither are hard.  You also need to have your prints ran through the FBI.  This is not to be a disservice to you or any other prior service, but for the protection of our cadets. We all have to go through it.  Congratulations on joining CAP and Captalk.

[Potomac Grays]

I've completed All the Level I training, prints accepted, Yaeger qualification complete, SET and GES done...

I need to find someone to review ground and radiological quals...

[IceNine]

This seems to me to be more of the norm than an exception.  The reason most likely that he holds back promotions is for just as you stated.  There have been people with prior service with absolutely no knowledge of the workings of CAP that have come in with guns loaded expecting to make changes because they wear the rank. Just remember even with all the experience you have with prior service there is still a ton of areas that don't even resemble anything in the military that the 6 months will probably be a useful learning experience.

[RogueLeader]

Yeah, I saw 'em. Good job getting them, but like noted- you may not need/use some of them, as there is no need in the wing for those qualifications.  A good way to get your GTM/L qualifications is get to an ES academy and demonstrate what you got.  I sincerely doubt that they will just sign off on your SQTR, which shows what tasks you have completed.  That is just how the system works.

[Potomac Grays]

My Squadron is thrilled to have me on board, and would like to add those missions to our skill-set. 

As for learning the CAP way, I've worked closely with CAP for years in training, youth programs and emergency response.

C'mon, other organizations also know a bit about emergency response, search & rescue and youth development. 

I'm certainly not going to elbow a more experienced CAP member out of the way, I'd just like a little credit for a life-time of experience...

Thanks for your great comments!  I really appreciate it!

[ddelaney103]

Fortunately, that's just for the jewelery - you start earning the pay rate immediately. 

[Major Lord]

A fairly high percentage of CAP members are crazy...We need to make sure you are too, before the guy in Alabama with the "officer" stamp and the Billy Beer can decides that you can be a CAP officer too....no offense intended of course....

Capt. Lord

[capchiro]

Poulton,
You didn't mention what your relevant experience was so it is hard for us to determine where you fit in.  Most of the advanced appointments/promotions require that a person be performing their special qualifications in the squadron or showing exemplary performance in some way.  I don't think that waiting for six months should be a probelm if you are interested in CAP.  Rank has nothing to do with what you can do to help out.  Most members are not happy when a new member shows up wearing advanced rank with no CAP background (just ask my wife, the lawyer).  I wouldn't go comparing us to any state force as they are as varied as can be.  We are trying to set a national standard and have  along heritage to be proud of and live up to.  I am sure that you will appreciate it once you are on board long enough.  Occasionally we get someone that tries to bend the rules and usually it is not a pretty sight.  To be competent as a ground team member or aircrew member, you may be looking at as much as two years of training.  And once you get it, you must re-certify every 2-3 years.  That is hard to do with the radiological monitoring stuff, trust me.  Anyhow, if you don't have the patience to wait for s months, you may be in the wrong place.  Also, if you have like experience in the Feds or state, I am surprised that you haven't developed such patience after 30 years.  Perhaps you would care to share your experience with us??  Anyhow, welcome to CAP and we have all been there..

[Eclipse]

Perhaps you would care to share your experience with us??  Anyhow, welcome to CAP and we have all been there..

Other threads indicate he is a former RealMilitary® officer with infantry experience (for starters).

[Flying Pig]

Don't get caught up in the rank.  I do understand what you mean though.  I was in CAP as a cadet for 6 years, 8 years in the military and 10 years a cop, with about 2 yrs of that being a Law Enforcement Aircrew.  You'll find that most "normal" Senior Members could really care less about what you have on your shoulder.  Its more about your personal reputation and your ability.   And your rank really doesnt prevent you from doing anything in CAP.  There have been several discussions about advanced promotions for people with experience, and in several cases there are, ie. Doctors, Lawyers, Chaplains, Nurses, CFI's and Commercial rated pilots to name a few.  Just enjoy the program, and youll be a Major in a few years, with full knowledge of CAP and how it operates.

And if anyone treats you like a "boot" because you are a 2Lt or a slick sleeve Senior Member, tell them to grow up.   

[ELTHunter]

I think you will find that respect will come from other members (both Officers and Cadets) when they see that you can demonstrate the experience you have, not what rank insignia you wear.  In fact, it is more likely that you will get more respect when your peers see that even with your experience you are OK with waiting the normal period for getting the promotions.  Too many people have joined or been asked to join CAP because of their experience and/or political connections and somehow they start out with Captains bars or Majors Oak Leafs on there shoulders from day one.

No disrespect intended, and I understand that you probably have way more experience and PME than most members will probably ever get.  The way rank has been handed out in the past, it has lost a lot of it's value.  That's why I'd be happy to let my experience speak for itself.

Glad to have you aboard.

[star1151]

Most members are not happy when a new member shows up wearing advanced rank with no CAP background (just ask my wife, the lawyer).

How not happy are they? 

[SarDragon]

Depends on the unit. The GOB flying clubs don't seem to care, since many of them have done their own fast-tracking. It seems to rear its ugly head mostly in the cadet and composite squadrons when the 1Lts who have been around for half of forever see the new folks putting on Capt right out of the chute. Then it can get ugly.

[SARPilotNY]

hey...we don't pencil whip...

[O-Rex]

Officers can be appointed with a single stroke of a pen, and reduced to nothing just as easily.

A gentleman remains a gentleman through thick & thin.

Ride out the six months with humility and dignity: You are who you are, two bits of tinsel or not. . .

[Hawk200]

... I'd just like a little credit for a life-time of experience...

Wear all the badges, awards and decorations earned in the military that are authorized on the CAP uniform. I don't know which branch you were, but most Army and Air Force stuff carries over.

It was fun when I was a SMWOG. Had to wear blues few times, and would wear my Air Force badge along with seven AF ribbons (eight with my Membership Ribbon). It amazed me how many CAP members with four or five years in would gawk. But it does show you've been around the block.

[Hawk200]

It seems to rear its ugly head mostly in the cadet and composite squadrons when the 1Lts who have been around for half of forever see the new folks putting on Capt right out of the chute. Then it can get ugly.

A few people in my unit seemed a little disconcerted when I put on Captain in my first three months there. It got a little better when they found out that I had been in CAP before.

[Camas]

I was delighted to discover that I am eligible for CAP rank equivalent to that of my prior federal service.  - - -starting out again as a "Boot Recruit" is just a tad annoying.

You may be eligible for promotion (Re: CAPR 35-5 Sec A Para 6e) but it doesn't mean that the commander has to promote you.  I can assure you that, even with your experience, she or he will be observing your candor, leadership, attitude and ability to be a team player.  Concentrate on those attributes and I think you'll be alot better off for it versus finding the whole rank thing "annoying".

[mdickinson]

I think there is a misperception among many that "the CAP regs say you have to be a Senior Member for 6 months, and then you can get your mission-skills-related (or professional) promotion."

But that's not what the regs say. They say that EITHER
(a) you get a duty-performance promotion, in which case you have to stay a Senior Member for 6 months before moving to 2d Lt;
OR (b) you get a special promotion based on mission-skills, or professional appointment, or prior active duty - in which case there is no 6 month period.

For former officers:

Regular and Reserve officers of the Armed Forces of the United States, active, retired or resigned, may be advanced to a CAP grade equivalent to their grade in the Armed Forces (but not to exceed lieutenant colonel), in recognition of their military knowledge and experience.  Such promotions are neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority.

For mission skills (pilots, instructors, aircraft mechanics, ham radio operators):

- [complete Level I]
- [complete CPPT]
- Be certified by the unit commander as contributing his or her special skills to the mission of CAP and performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended.
- Be recommended by immediate superior and unit commander.

For professionals (chaplains, moral leadership officers, health service personnel, legal officers, professional educators, and financial professionals):
- Too complicated to list here; see CAPR 35-5, Figure 6.

As Camas said, it's possible to be promoted right away, but not unusual to be made to wait.

You may be eligible for promotion (Re: CAPR 35-5 Sec A Para 6e) but it doesn't mean that the commander has to promote you.  I can assure you that, even with your experience, she or he will be observing your candor, leadership, attitude and ability to be a team player.

As Camas said, there is no recourse for being made to wait; you just have to swallow your pride and let it go like water off a duck's back. (And having been in your situation, I don't mind saying I found that very difficult to do.)

The promotion requirements themselves seem quite reasonable - but I do hate it when they are applied unevenly. As in this true life example:

Two CFIs join CAP on the same day, at the same group meeting. Each one joins a different squadron in the same wing.

• One becomes a Captain a week later and starts flight instructing for CAP.
• The other has to earn duty performance promotions. Remains a SM for a year, then 2d Lt, then 1st Lt then finally makes Captain after two years. Only after three years does he finally get approved to start giving flight instruction in CAP.
• The difference between these two? Different unit commanders, who interpreted the promotion regulation differently.
• Who was able to give more valuable assistance to CAP? Who was penalized, and what for? Was it fair that one had to buy 3 sets of insignia, instead of just one?
• And which one do you think is likely to stay involved?