Air Command and Staff College offers Master's degree for online course

[dogboy]

http://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp

The Air Command and Staff College On-Line program can now lead to a Master's degree from Air University.

Only Active, Reserve, and NG are eligible now. But:

"As program capacity permits, beginning January 2008, the aperture will open further to include Air Force civilians in major-equivalent positions, sister-service majors and major-selects, and DoD and other eligible Federal Agency civilians in major-equivalent positions."

"The Online Master's Degree is a voluntary program. It is a separate program from ACSC's traditional Distance Learning, non-Master's Degree PME course, not an addendum to it. Nor does the Online Master's Degree replace the Distance Learning non-Master's course. Eligible officers may elect to take whichever program meets their particular needs best."

On a personal note, I was enrolled in the Distance-Learning Air Command and Staff College program. I found it to be intellectually very shallow, more like propaganda than serious education. Since there's no provision for discussion, the shallowness and one-sidedness of the material was all the more frustrating.

For example, no one in military policy-making seriously believes that the NATO air war had a decisive effect on forcing Serbian President Milosevic to permit UN-NATO peacekeeping forces in Kosovo, despite the 38,000 combat missions flown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

Unless ground forces are on the move, or at least warming their tank and truck engines, it's virtually impossible to destroy them with air strikes. Unless they face a ground enemy, opposition forces can simply lie low and be undetected.

What really caused Milosevic to give it up was that the Russians withdrew support and, most importantly, Hungary entered NATO. Hungary provide an easy land invasion route to Kosovo that was formerly lacking.

The Distance ACSC course claims that Kosovo was an example of how land-forces could be defeated by air-power alone. This nonsensically view is not unrelated to our current problems in Iraq and Afganistan.

[mikeylikey]

Not real sure if CAP will ever be allowed to complete that.  I joined CAP just to get my Master's Degree will be the new Moniker of the organization.  Or how about "ya...I got my Masters now I'm done with CAP.  So you have to be a Major right......thats only 4 to 5 years of $40.00 dues for a Master's Degree.  Thats Awesome!

[Ned]

I spokewith the USAF O5 course manager of that program last week at Maxwell.

He assured me that CAP folks will be eiligible come the first of the year.

A free Masters Degree with CAP!


Could be a slogan in that.

[dogboy]

A free Masters Degree with CAP!

If it's a free Master's degree you seek, here's a FREE internet-based MBA I was recently admitted to:

http://www.bth.se/mam/internetmba.nsf

Blekinge Tekniska Högskola (Blekinge Institute of Technology)

In English and FREE. One trip to Sweden required for thesis defense. Personally, I would rather go to Sweden than Maxwell AFB in the summer.

[O-Rex]

Folks looking to "join CAP and get a degree" are unlikely to stay the course.

Achieving Senior PD Levels is not necessarily an arduous process, but there are hoops to jump through that might discourage individuals seeking instant-gratification. 

I haven't seen the application, but normally a bachelor's degree is required before starting a Master's program.  It's a given that an Air Force O-4 (or any USAF officer, for that matter) has one, which may not necessarily be the case with all CAP members.

Even if the application process does not require proof of undergraduate work, leap-frogging from HS Diploma to a Master's Degree would be a hefty undertaking, to say the least.

I just don't foresee a big rush of qualified and capable CAP members enrolling in the program.

Current Non-Masters ACSC: took it in 05-06, sure, there was definitely an Air Power spin there, but I still found it informative.  For example, the argument that Operation Linebacker II would not have been successful earlier in the Vietnam war was compelling.  The forensic study of Lt Col Bud Holland's B-52 crash was a classic case of command safety climate gone wrong (I've seen parallels in my time in CAP.) 

Correspondence courses that are not supplemented with chat rooms or at least asynchronous discussion boards are bound to have limitations.  I am currently in my second semester of the web-based Naval War College program: it is considerably more challenging than the current non-resident ACSC, and has the interaction you seek.

Despite it's shortcomings, I know more members who have dropped SOS and/or ACSC that those who completed it.

Congratulations on being accepted for the program you mentioned.  The school looks to be part of the public university system of Sweden, and requires that Students be graduates of accredited schools in their respective countries (in our case, regional accreditation.)  I wonder if U.S. agencies/universities/employers will return the favor.

Let us know how things go as you progress through the program....

[mikeylikey]

I hope it won't just be for CAP Majors!  It would not be fair for a person to come into cap as a Captain because he has a private pilots licence that he got while still in high school and only had to serve in cap for what....the 2 years to make Major, while I have to serve for 5 years because I came in as a 2nd LT even though I had a bachelors degree.  (NOTE......This is not about me, I am just generalizing).  Is the professional appointment thing in CAP terrible and unjustified in some circumstances?  Most likely!  If we award Captain to a 21 year old "kid" whose Mom and Dad put them through flight school why can't we award Captain to a person who spent 4 or more years in school working toward an advanced degree.   

[RogueLeader]

3 yr TIG for major.

[Hawk200]

It would not be fair for a person to come into cap as a Captain because he has a private pilots licence that he got while still in high school......

If we award Captain to a 21 year old "kid" whose Mom and Dad put them through flight school ... 

Per CAPR 35-5, a private pilot ticket doesn't get anyone Captain. For Captain upon initial entry, you have to have a CFI/CFII or an ATP ticket. For 1LT, it has to be Instrument or commercial.

Of course, if we get a 21 year old "kid" with any of those ratings, then he deserves the advanced rank. Not easy to do.

Pilots licenses are something CAP can use. To be blunt, unless you have a degree in something in that CAP has direct use of, a degree doesn't mean much other than just another sheet of paper in your 201 file. The only degree requirement I know of in CAP is that of a Chaplain. MLO's have to have some advanced education, but it is still required to be related to the job.

Not discounting other degrees, they show a lot of discipline to obtain, but you wouldn't hire a guy with a degree in Political Science to do chemistry work, or someone with a Nursing degree for Communications. They don't fit.

[O-Rex]

I hope it won't just be for CAP Majors!  It would not be fair for a person to come into cap as a Captain because he has a private pilots licence that he got while still in high school and only had to serve in cap for what....the 2 years to make Major, while I have to serve for 5 years because I came in as a 2nd LT even though I had a bachelors degree.  (NOTE......This is not about me, I am just generalizing).  Is the professional appointment thing in CAP terrible and unjustified in some circumstances?  Most likely!  If we award Captain to a 21 year old "kid" whose Mom and Dad put them through flight school why can't we award Captain to a person who spent 4 or more years in school working toward an advanced degree.   

Anyone coming in as a Captain is:

A Spaatz recipient

A CFI/CFII

An ordained chaplain

A Certified Public Accountant

A doctor or other medical professional

(I might have left out one or two, but you get the picture.)

None of the above are easy to obtain.  Any 21 year-old CFI/CFII joining CAP well deserves the rank.  Even if Mom or Pop bankrolled it, they probably didn't take the course for him or her.

Professional appointees probably have enough educational credentials that they are not vying for a free graduate degree that they wouldn't likely use in their profession anyway.

Unfair?  The Army has always boasted the "high-school-to-flight school" option for qualifying 18 year-olds.   Any kid who has the technical wherewithal, demonstrated leadership potential and the endurance to make it through that program deserves to be an officer and fly multimillion dollar heavily-armed aircraft, even if he or she can't legally buy a drink in his or her home state (nowadays there are very, very few of these young hotshots, but some nonetheless.)

Anyone coming into CAP as a Captain still has to jump through the same PD hoops as the rest of us if they want to make Major.  If they can do that in the time it takes to meet TIG requirements, more power to them.

As for limiting the program to Majors, that's USAF/AU's requirement for their own folks, why should CAP be any different.  Per my last post, they would be wise to add an undergrad degree requirement for CAP Majors applying for the program: no different from any other grad school.

Life is not fair: anyone telling you otherwise is trying to sell you something 

[mikeylikey]

High school to Flight School is a Warrant Officer program......If I am correct, only 60 college credits are required to mainatin being a WO after appointment and you have like 2 years to get them after you recieve the Warrant.  There is nothing wrong with that program.......it produces WO pilots, however, I would tottaly be offended if it became a Commissioning program. 

It is also notable that that program is more heavily used in the National Guard not Active duty or Reserve. 

As far as CAP goes......I change my stance on the being a Major and enrolling in the Masters Degree program.  I guess that is ok.  I would happily wait to take the course......but by that time I will most likely be a Major in the Army and I will just enroll then. 

In all honesty this could very well be a huge stepping stone in bringing CAP and the AF closer together.  Now you will have Officers that have taken the same course/courses and can relate to each other.

[O-Rex]

In all honesty this could very well be a huge stepping stone in bringing CAP and the AF closer together.  Now you will have Officers that have taken the same course/courses and can relate to each other.

I've been saying that for years: if offers a common frame of reference, not to mention a bit more credibility.

The "conventional" SOS/ACSC/AWC courses have been, and still are available to CAP members, yet few choose those paths, and fewer still actually complete them.

[Pylon]

I spokewith the USAF O5 course manager of that program last week at Maxwell.

He assured me that CAP folks will be eiligible come the first of the year.

A free Masters Degree with CAP!


Could be a slogan in that.

Hey Ned!  Thanks for the intel!  Any idea where we can get more information on this opportunity as it comes closer?

--Mike

[Hawk200]

The "conventional" SOS/ACSC/AWC courses have been, and still are available to CAP members, yet few choose those paths, and fewer still actually complete them.

Kinda leaves me thinking that I should get to them myself. Wouldn't hurt, and would present an example to fellow members of my unit.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Personally, I'm looking forward to taking all of the courses.  I've come to realize that I am a Prof. Development junkie.  The only thing that is keeping me back is I have at least 23 months before I am eligible for my Capt. bars.  By the time that I have them, I will have already completed Level 4. 

Back to ACSC Master's degree - it looks like it doesn't take the place of the original, and so, would not satisfy the requirements for wearing the star on the Garber ribbon.  Anyone have thoughts on this?

[O-Rex]

Back to ACSC Master's degree - it looks like it doesn't take the place of the original, and so, would not satisfy the requirements for wearing the star on the Garber ribbon.  Anyone have thoughts on this?

Why wouldn't it?

[Hawk200]

Back to ACSC Master's degree - it looks like it doesn't take the place of the original, and so, would not satisfy the requirements for wearing the star on the Garber ribbon.  Anyone have thoughts on this?

Why wouldn't it?

Probably technicalities in the reg, or that it's a new program that hasn't been addressed yet. Like the Warrior Leader Course that replaced PLDC that National still doesn't really know anything about. It probably will be in the future, it's just that it probably won't qualify in the next year or so.

[gallagheria]

The only degree requirement I know of in CAP is that of a Chaplain.

Well, AEO's must have a bachelor's degree and teacher certification. As for college degree's in general, I see no problem making them mandatory. Make us more like the Air Force. If a person is a pilot and no degree, make them a warrant officer like in the Army. Degrees themselves may be worthless, but they are a good stepping stone for future advancement like Command and Staff College and so on. 

Hawk200, you said:

Not discounting other degrees, they show a lot of discipline to obtain, but you wouldn't hire a guy with a degree in Political Science to do chemistry work, or someone with a Nursing degree for Communications. They don't fit.

For the most part that is true. But getting a  degree shows discipline to learn, whether it is your particular field or not. My brother is a perfect example. He graduated from military school with a BA in history, commissioned medical service, and is now a medevac pilot. Go figure the connection there. 

[Al Sayre]

Hey Shorning, got any popcorn?

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Well, AEO's must have a bachelor's degree and teacher certification.

Do you have the reg cite for this.  I am the AEO for my squadron, and while yes, I do have a degree, I am not a certificated teacher.  No where in 280-2, CAPP 15 or CAPP 215 does it say you have to be a teacher to serve as the AEO.  Thank you for setting me straight if I am wrong and didn't see it.

[Pylon]

The only degree requirement I know of in CAP is that of a Chaplain.

Well, AEO's must have a bachelor's degree and teacher certification. As for college degree's in general, I see no problem making them mandatory. Make us more like the Air Force. If a person is a pilot and no degree, make them a warrant officer like in the Army. Degrees themselves may be worthless, but they are a good stepping stone for future advancement like Command and Staff College and so on. 

Hawk200, you said:

Not discounting other degrees, they show a lot of discipline to obtain, but you wouldn't hire a guy with a degree in Political Science to do chemistry work, or someone with a Nursing degree for Communications. They don't fit.

For the most part that is true. But getting a  degree shows discipline to learn, whether it is your particular field or not. My brother is a perfect example. He graduated from military school with a BA in history, commissioned medical service, and is now a medevac pilot. Go figure the connection there. 

That discussion has already come up several times: (1)   (2) , (3) , etc.  Please continue any discussion on that topic in an appropriate thread and keep this topic on subject of the ACSC Online Masters program.  Thanks!  

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Back to ACSC Master's degree - it looks like it doesn't take the place of the original, and so, would not satisfy the requirements for wearing the star on the Garber ribbon.  Anyone have thoughts on this?

Why wouldn't it?

This is from the program description of the Master's Degree program on AFIADL's website... 
The Online Master's Degree is a voluntary program. It is a separate program from ACSC's traditional Distance Learning, non-Master's Degree PME course, not an addendum to it. Nor does the Online Master's Degree replace the Distance Learning non-Master's course.

hence, why I asked the question.

[Major Carrales]

If and when this opportunity is made available to CAP, I think I will do it.  I am a little over halfway towards a Masters now...but, my growing family precludes finishing a at a University.  I will have to do it on line.

If CAP gives me that opportunity...I am honored.

[gallagheria]

Well, AEO's must have a bachelor's degree and teacher certification.

Do you have the reg cite for this.  I am the AEO for my squadron, and while yes, I do have a degree, I am not a certificated teacher.  No where in 280-2, CAPP 15 or CAPP 215 does it say you have to be a teacher to serve as the AEO.  Thank you for setting me straight if I am wrong and didn't see it.

This is what I was thinking of. I see it applies to special promotion eligibility. CAPR 35-5(23)(e):

Aerospace Education Officers. A CAP aerospace education officer is an officer serving in an aerospace education position at any level of CAP. For the purpose of promotion under the professional appointments method the aerospace education officer must also be fully certified as a professional educator (teacher, counselor, or administrator) by the state department of education in the member's state of residence or have served as a college or university professor educator (full, associate or assistant) or other faculty member.

Back to the advanced education for CAP members, I think it is great. The more we are integrated into military programs and education, the more we are accepted as being able to do the mission.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

If and when this opportunity is made available to CAP, I think I will do it.  If CAP gives me that opportunity...I am honored.

I have to concur, life and personal experiences have precluded me from advancing past my B.S. degree.  So, when I attain the rank of Maj, and if this program is (still) available, I will jump at it.

[James Shaw]

The Teacher Requirement of the Aerospace Education Officer is primarily for those who are in the DDR programs in the school units. They are different than those for the Specialty Track as an AE. The teachers who lead or help with a DDR program are brought in as Captains if they have a State Teaching Certificate and can provide proof. They are not run like a traditional squadron as most members are use to. They have their own seperate structure. I helped start a Squadron at a local middle school as an afterschool program. A regular Cadet Squadron. The Squadron Commander worked for a couple of years with them and had some problems. About 90% of the students dropped out and they only had 6 Cadets. I took over Command after the left over cadets started complaining. The Squadron was in jeopardy of being dropped down to a flight or closed all together. I was asked to take over as Commander as a 1st Lt. The designation was changed from a Cadet Squadron to a DDR Squadron. Even though I have multiple degrees I dont have a teaching certificate and was not made a Captain. I did however qualify for early advancement after a year of Command Duty which makes you eligable for Captain.

[dogboy]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply to my post. I am sorry to state that I am more dissatisfied with the current ACSC than you. I agree that some of the material was interesting and useful but it would have been much more interesting and useful if not for the "Air Power" bias.

For example, one of the most interesting reading was about the innovations that Gen. William H. Tunner brought to the Berlin Airlift. General Turner, who had commanded traffic over "The Hump" in WWII, essentially rescued the Airlift by by a number of small but important and big but important changes in procedure.  Flights on VFR were completely ended and ALL flights were made on instruments, using former Luftwaffe personnel as mechanics, and using rumble from bombed-out Berlin and heavy construction equipment that had been cut-up, then re-welded together to build a new Berlin airfield are only some of the ingenious innovations that General Turner had instituted.

What the assigned article did NOT state was who was the Berlin Airlift commander whop PRECEDED Tunner and failed.

Good reason for that: the failure was none other than Gen. Curtis LeMay,  the Air Force Commander in Europe.

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/1998/2/1998_2_42.shtml

If the article had been willing to reveal LeMay's name, further lessons could have been drawn: don't micro-manage, install a local commander who has experience in the task, maybe even the notion that air transport is an important function of the Air Force, as important as air superiority, or strategic bombing or tactical air support.

Current Non-Masters ACSC: took it in 05-06, sure, there was definitely an Air Power spin there, but I still found it informative.

<snip>

Congratulations on being accepted for the program you mentioned.  The school looks to be part of the public university system of Sweden, and requires that Students be graduates of accredited schools in their respective countries (in our case, regional accreditation.)  I wonder if U.S. agencies/universities/employers will return the favor.

Let us know how things go as you progress through the program....

Yes, BTH is part of the Swedish public university system, which is well regarded. The MBA program I am enrolled in is too new to be accredited by any of the big three business school accreditors: AASCB, AMBA, or Equis. However distance programs have been so accredited and I think eventually BTH will be.

It is difficult to predict how a BTH MBA will be regarded by employers in the US. Distance-learning degrees are generally looked on with some suspicion and perhaps a foreign one will be even more so. On the other hand, some employers may see a foreign education as advantage where foreign trade or investment are involved. 

I do not know if I would recommend the BTH route or any distance-learning MBA for someone who wants to get the most payback for a degree. However if one must take the distance-learning MBA, I suggest that one be selected that is accredited by either AASCB, AMBA, or Equis in addition to regional-accreditation.

Thanks again for your thoughtful comments on my original post and for the suggestion of Naval War College. Have you done AIR War College?