How often is a 2b issued and what exactally warrants one?

[BillB]

As mentioned, when you 2B a cadet, that ends forever his being able to rejoin as a Senior or in another Squadron. Just because Little Johnny doesn't show up for a few months doesn't mean he's quit CAP or that he needs to be 2B'd. Why has he been missing meetings? Does he have a part time job? His parents get home from work late and can't drive him to a meeting? To many Commanders over the years abuse their authority by 2B'ing a cadet without any knowledge about the cadet.
The two Termination Board hearings I was involved with, once as Board Chair, have been a farce. Only myself and one other member of the Board listened to the evidence, we voted not to terminate, but the other three Board members bowed down to the commander bringing the termination action. Many of the Board members had their mind made up prior to the hearing, or the politcs of the Wing were involved. Most members do not appeal as they see no way to get a fair hearing since the termination Board action tends to bias higher headquarters appeal process.

[RiverAux]

Just because Little Johnny doesn't show up for a few months doesn't mean he's quit CAP or that he needs to be 2B'd.

I personally don't care very much if an inactive member stays on the rolls till their dues run out, but the fact does remain that it is a specific cause for cadet disenrollment if they miss 3 meetings in a row without an excuse.

[ZigZag911]

Just because Little Johnny doesn't show up for a few months doesn't mean he's quit CAP or that he needs to be 2B'd.

I personally don't care very much if an inactive member stays on the rolls till their dues run out, but the fact does remain that it is a specific cause for cadet disenrollment if they miss 3 meetings in a row without an excuse.

Perhaps it is time to consider another standard; maybe attendance should only apply toward time in grade (if you miss a meeting without an excuse, the clock goes back a week).

[JohnKachenmeister]

That is really hard to enforce on cadets.  Much of the time their non-attedance is due to factors beyond their control.  And, if they fail to renew, the problem takes care of itself. 

You should only use the Termination option in misconduct cases.

[ZigZag911]

I agree, John, 2B is for misconduct....which is why I'd like to see '3 strikes and you're out' removed for cadets

[RiverAux]

I think you're missing the key word:  "excused"  I've known many, many cadets who had to take a leave of absence from the program for valid reasons.  In fact, that is fairly common.  The thing is that they approached their leadership before hand and got it worked out. 

However, if a cadet just stops showing up and doesn't bother to inform the leadership, thats a different story. 

[Al Sayre]

A 2b does not automatically prevent someone from rejoining except for Cause or Misconduct.  Note that a Voluntary Resignation is also possible as is terminating a Cadets membership for Marriage, Military Service etc.  These do not cause an automatic exclusion from future membership.

[RiverAux]

When I was a cadet I eventually dropped out of CAP.  I know I told the seniors I was leaving, but don't know if they put a 2b in for me or just let my membership lapse.  In either case it didn't prevent me from rejoining about 12 years later. 

[Pumbaa]

Am I missing something?

This is a volunteer organization!!! 

Youth have enough things going on with their lives as is.  Activities and mandatory and changing demands on their time for school.. School is the priority. Family is a priority...

I cannot imagine 2b-ing a cadet because of attendance.  If they miss a meeting, then you have another cadet call and/or email, basically saying "sorry we missed you, here's what went on this week.. will you be back next week?"  It always comes out, why they are not there.

If they are leaving just let the membership lapse... No harm to foul...

My daughter and I just missed 7 weeks due to commitments this year, I missed 8 weeks last year when I uprooted my family when I started a new job and relocated.  They knew things were up but I did not tell them when I was coming back, that was the least of my worries... BTW I still attend the same squadron over an hour away vs one 15 minutes away from my new home!

We have enough things going on to let a volunteer organization dictate what we do and have to worry about getting a 2b.

We have some old time members in our squadron who NEVER show up but pay their dues every year.. We have them on an inactive status, but do not 2b them.

I agree, with Zig and John, 2B is for misconduct...

ETA: Just remember if a person is not showing up, they are not getting the training, so you cannot put them in activities such as ES, etc...

[SARMedTech]

At any point during a 2B hearing, is it appropriate to get all red in the face and scream:"YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!"   Just curious.

[Pumbaa]

SARMed, the answer is YES.. But only when the person is a stooopid Jackhole and you have gone through the 12 step proceedure before getting red in the face.

[RiverAux]

My daughter and I just missed 7 weeks due to commitments this year, I missed 8 weeks last year when I uprooted my family when I started a new job and relocated.  They knew things were up but I did not tell them when I was coming back, that was the least of my worries... BTW I still attend the same squadron over an hour away vs one 15 minutes away from my new home!

So, you folks did it right -- you told the leadership you had some big changes going on and wouldn't be able to participate for a while.  So, no real probability of your daughter getting a 2b. 

Now, would it have been ok if your daughter had just disappeared for 2 months with no word to the squadron?

Like it or not we expect a lot more of our cadets than from our senior members and if they go AWOL (which is exactly what we're talking about), shouldn't there be consequences?   

[Hawk200]

A 2b does not automatically prevent someone from rejoining except for Cause or Misconduct.  Note that a Voluntary Resignation is also possible as is terminating a Cadets membership for Marriage, Military Service etc.  These do not cause an automatic exclusion from future membership.

Why would you terminate a member for military service? I may have missed it, but the only thing that I ever recall reading on the military service aspect was that it had to be extended active duty, and then the individual was supposed to put in a senior application with transfer from cadet status. Don't remember anything about terminating them.

[DeputyDog]

A 2b does not automatically prevent someone from rejoining except for Cause or Misconduct.  Note that a Voluntary Resignation is also possible as is terminating a Cadets membership for Marriage, Military Service etc.  These do not cause an automatic exclusion from future membership.

Why would you terminate a member for military service? I may have missed it, but the only thing that I ever recall reading on the military service aspect was that it had to be extended active duty, and then the individual was supposed to put in a senior application with transfer from cadet status. Don't remember anything about terminating them.

Because some cadets do not want to cross over to the dark side. If they refuse to become a senior member (officer), then what do you do with them?

[RiverAux]

Also, you have to be discharged from the cadet program if you join the active duty military. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I have NO idea why, with everything else a commander has to do, you would do a termination action on a cadet for missing meetings.  IF he misses meetings, there are two possible outcomes:

1.  He will miss them from now until the end of time, and at some point cease to be a member.

2.  He will return, be told he should have communicated his situation with the chain of command, resume his training, and we all go on with our lives.

How does a termination action improve on either of these two outcomes?

[Al Sayre]

My point is, that a 2b is not necessarily the end of the world or the end of someone's participation in CAP.  It is a multipurpose form that probably should be used more often to document when and why people leave the program, rather than just letting their membership lapse.  It could eventually make a difference in the retention rates if used properly to address why people left at the national level rather than just thousands of "non-renewals"...

It's not a really hit against your program or the person if a cadets membership is terminated for marriage, military service, moved, failure to maintain academic standards, voluntary resignation etc., and helps to unskew the statistics.  On the other hand, if the majority of terminations are for lack of interest, failure to progress, misconduct, then you may have a problem in your program.

The Officer Side side of the form is a different story, since there are only 2 choices, voluntary (which would include job, moving, school issues etc.) and For Cause which is punitive in nature.  

In my opinion, we probably should have 2 different forms, one for voluntary resignations of the non-punitive nature, job, school, military service, marriage etc. and another that is specifically for disciplinary actions, both Officerr and Cadet.  The Squadron should be filling out one or the other whenever someone leaves or is tossed, to track the reasons and try and stem the flow of non-renewals.

[MattPHS2002]

Now I have to ask, why does it really matter if a Cadet is married and/or in the Military, especially the military, aren't they usually the type of role model we want for cadets?

[Al Sayre]

If one is married or in the miliary, they are considered an adult, and no longer eligible to be a Cadet.  This kind of makes sense based on the restrictions we place on our Cadet members, it is unlikely that a person who is married or in the military would want to be placed under those restrictions anyway.  YMMV...

[Major Carrales]

If one is married or in the miliary, they are considered an adult, and no longer eligible to be a Cadet.  This kind of makes sense based on the restrictions we place on our Cadet members, it is unlikely that a person who is married or in the military would want to be placed under those restrictions anyway.  YMMV...

I agree, a Married or Military "cadet" is and adult and would now likely best serve CAP as an adult CAP Officer.

However, a 2b is often seen as a mark of dishonor...like a court marshal and less than honorable discharge.  There needs to be, in my opinion, a different form and procedure for those issues.