Minutes

[fyrfitrmedic]

I attended the anniversary and didn't witness any 'hazing', and I was present from 1200ish on Saturday until well after graduation on Sunday. I'm far from all-seeing, but I didn't see or hear of anyone running that number of OCs.

My question was born out of simple curiosity and is, despite the apparent opinions of some others here, a legitimate question. Do I feel that opinions of those who haven't been to the school personally are of less value? Absolutely not. Do I feel that they come from a different perspective? Certainly. Nobody's questioning anyone's bona fides here.

I've encountered HMRS grads that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw 'em with one hand. Come to think of it, I've encountered NESA grads and NBB grads and folks from all over the place that fit in the same category.  The difference is that I'm not one of those folks that screams that [fill in name of school or activity here] should be burned to the ground and the ashes plowed under with copious amounts of salt, etc. etc. etc...

I didn't make the Katrina trip, as I've commented before. I was at home caring for my dying father [himself a CAP member who told me to go rather than stay local, incidentally]. The sum total of all the "anecdotes", rumors, recriminations, namecalling and everything else that I've seen from all sides makes me feel a little ashamed to be a member of Civil Air Patrol sometimes.

One thing I'm not ashamed to do, however, is sign my name to my posts.

[JC004]

...I've encountered HMRS grads that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw 'em with one hand.

Just make sure to only do it to seniors.  CPP and all that.  Could be fun to watch.

[fyrfitrmedic]

...I've encountered HMRS grads that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw 'em with one hand.

Just make sure to only do it to seniors.  CPP and all that.  Could be fun to watch.

Senior-tossing... could be an event at competitions 

[JC004]

...I've encountered HMRS grads that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw 'em with one hand.

Just make sure to only do it to seniors.  CPP and all that.  Could be fun to watch.

Senior-tossing... could be an event at competitions 

Sending that to the deputy chiefs of staff IAW the general's invitation.  NCSA maybe.

[Al Sayre]

Do you wear a kilt like in caber tossing?

What kind of grip is legal?  One handed throat sling? Bums rush? Eyes and mouth like a bowling ball?

If you don't get enough distance on the first toss, can you punt?

C'mon guys we need some rules here!

[Chaplaindon]

Not in the least bit "ashamed."

:angel:

Signed

[JC004]

Do you wear a kilt like in caber tossing?

What kind of grip is legal?  One handed throat sling? Bums rush? Eyes and mouth like a bowling ball?

If you don't get enough distance on the first toss, can you punt?

C'mon guys we need some rules here!

Hum...things to be considered.  I don't have a kilt...    Not sure about grip...I would imagine any, since senior members come in lots of shapes and sizes.  I'd surely punt a few seniors I can think of... 

[jimmydeanno]

They NEED to get rid of the "RANGER" crap.  We can still have a HAWK MTN, but take out the useless hazing, and brainwashing associated with the Ranger side of the training.  Focus primarily on what the rest of the country is focusing in on. 

...and what are we left with? NESA

[Dragoon]

Exactly.  If Hawk is to be a national school, it needs to teach the national program.  No extra bells, whistles or ascots required.

[JC004]

Exactly.  If Hawk is to be a national school, it needs to teach the national program.  No extra bells, whistles or ascots required.

Don't tell me they authorized bells on the uniform now...

[arajca]

Continuing this off-topic discussion about Hawk, NESA, ad nauseum.

IMO, Hawk should stop selling itself as a GSAR school and sell itself as a survival school, since, from information I have read and heard, that is a huge focus, with GSAR added to give it credibility. NESA should be a instructor school to provide uniform training for personnel to to conduct ES schools at the wing or region level. This means there would not be a National entry level GSAR/ES school, but is that a loss? Having well trained instructors at wing level ES school would go a long way to having a uniform ES program nationwide. Take FEMA for example, FEMA does not provide classroom training for folks needing ICS course, FEMA provides training for folks to instruct ICS courses. All FEMA instructors get the same curriculum and training to help standardize the ICS instruction.

The NBB "CAP-SSC" dream needs to get a reality check. With the limited number of spots for intense flight line training, NBB does not provide an opportunity for standardized training. It focuses on the activity they are supporting. It is funny that on the NBB Yahoo group, there were a lot of folks telling all the bb's to check their egos and not act as if they are special after the blue beret was authorized.

[mikeylikey]

One thing I'm not ashamed to do, however, is sign my name to my posts.

Not ashamed, just smart.  There are numerous reasons not to give away personal info.  If you are really that interested in who I am, because of what I say, PM me and we can start "chatting".  When the requirement comes down to start signing, I will gladly do that, not before.

[arajca]

The May NEC agenda is up here: May 2007 NEC Meeting Agenda. Some interesting stuff in it. Potential for initial pilot training for seniors.

[ZigZag911]

The May NEC agenda is up here: May 2007 NEC Meeting Agenda. Some interesting stuff in it. Potential for initial pilot training for seniors.

Possible pilot training for seniors is interesting, I think Col Skiba is correct, should be restricted to those already qualified as scanner or observer....some demonstrated interest in ES flying.

They're still beating the PCA horse (legislative agenda request to BOG).

Still no sign of December 2006 BOG meeting minutes!

[JC004]

The May NEC agenda is up here: May 2007 NEC Meeting Agenda. Some interesting stuff in it. Potential for initial pilot training for seniors.

Possible pilot training for seniors is interesting, I think Col Skiba is correct, should be restricted to those already qualified as scanner or observer....some demonstrated interest in ES flying.

They're still beating the PCA horse (legislative agenda request to BOG).

Still no sign of December 2006 BOG meeting minutes!

I also agree with the prereqs for senior flight training.  I think that will go over well.

I found the whole legislative agenda outline interesting (two pages).

And how come the FOUO ops plan is on a public page?

[RiverAux]

The legislative agenda takes active steps to separate CAP from the AF in regards to missions performed for other federal agencies.  Some on this board have been saying for some time that this is what NHQ was trying to do, but I remained skeptical.  Not anymore. 

On the other hand the agenda reveals information about some court cases in which it was pretty clear the AF was trying to separate from CAP. 

All in all, it doesn't bode well for improving the relationship. 

[arajca]

I think part of this separation issue comes straight from being the USAF Aux only part time. It seems like the AF wants full-time control and part-time responsibility. If CAP was the USAF Aux full-time, these issues wouldn't have come up.

Another impression that comes to mind is the AF wants to get rid of CAP, but doesn't want to tell Congress that at this time. I can see some future CSAF recommending to some future SecAF that this under-used organization should be dissolved and the monies put into the AF general budget.

[Eagle400]

I think part of this separation issue comes straight from being the USAF Aux only part time. It seems like the AF wants full-time control and part-time responsibility. If CAP was the USAF Aux full-time, these issues wouldn't have come up.

*Bump*

I agree.  Making CAP the part-time auxiliary of the USAF was one of the worst decisions ever made.  All it did was widen the gap between CAP and the Air Force.  Sad to say, some people want it that way [cough]... Pineda...[cough].   

Another impression that comes to mind is the AF wants to get rid of CAP, but doesn't want to tell Congress that at this time. I can see some future CSAF recommending to some future SecAF that this under-used organization should be dissolved and the monies put into the AF general budget.

It sure does seem that way.  Hopefully, CAP will have built up a better reputation by then and it will be harder to get rid of CAP.  That probably won't happen, though.

Any thoughts?