The New CAPM 39-1 Now Available

Started by MisterCD, June 26, 2014, 05:25:56 PM

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Sketch

Quote from: SarDragon on July 30, 2014, 06:13:40 AM
My interpretation - Member implies cadet or SM, so patches earned as a cadet may be worn after crossing to the dark side.

The bigger question is - should they be worn by SMs? I think folks should move on and wear SM patches that they have earned, and save the cadet patches for "I love me" wall decoration.

YMMV.
Thanks for the answer, I'll assume that because the manual doesn't specify either way its not a written rule and is up the individual.

I agree with you to a certain extent - if a SM has earned more current patches as a SM they should wear those, however it depends on how active they are. For example, if a SM went to COS as a cadet, but regularly returns as staff I think they should wear the patch, where as someone who went to SUPTFC once many moons ago, and is no longer active in that program, probably shouldn't wear it IMHO.

SarDragon

Aren't we talking about patches for utility uniforms here? How often are these uniforms worn at the activities you mentioned?
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

lordmonar

Quote from: Sketch on July 30, 2014, 05:59:35 AM
So I've been trying to get a definitive answer on whether or not senior members may wear NCSA patches earned while as a cadet on BDUs. I've heard a few conflicting answers but generally I get the standard "I dont know, go look it up." I've searched through the new 39-1 and unless I missed something (which is probably the case) both Ch. 5 and Ch. 10 say nothing about this. So what is the policy on seniors wearing NCSA patches?

Here is all I could find:
Quote10.7.15. National Cadet Special Activities (NCSA) Patch. Members who have successfully completed an NHQ-endorsed NCSA may wear the associated patch as reflected on the NHQ-website. Patches earned for prior NCSAs which are no longer current or in this list may continue to be worn.
What is confusing about that.   "Members" that would be everyone.  "Cadet Member" would be just cadets.  "Adult Members" or "Senior Members" would just be old folk.   

If you have successfully completed and NCSA you may wear the patch.

You don't need to go digging any deeper....it ain't rocket science.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

LSThiker

Quote from: SarDragon on July 30, 2014, 06:13:40 AM
My interpretation - Member implies cadet or SM, so patches earned as a cadet may be worn after crossing to the dark side.

No interpretation required.  It states it there in CAPM 39-1:

Quote1.2.3.8.6. "Members" indicate adult officers, NCOs and Cadets.

Tim Medeiros

Quote from: Sketch on July 30, 2014, 05:59:35 AM
So I've been trying to get a definitive answer on whether or not senior members may wear NCSA patches earned while as a cadet on BDUs. I've heard a few conflicting answers but generally I get the standard "I dont know, go look it up." I've searched through the new 39-1 and unless I missed something (which is probably the case) both Ch. 5 and Ch. 10 say nothing about this. So what is the policy on seniors wearing NCSA patches?

Here is all I could find:
Quote10.7.15. National Cadet Special Activities (NCSA) Patch. Members who have successfully completed an NHQ-endorsed NCSA may wear the associated patch as reflected on the NHQ-website. Patches earned for prior NCSAs which are no longer current or in this list may continue to be worn.
The quote seems pretty clear to me, is the SM a member?  If so, then they can wear them.  Remember that NCSAs are not only attended by cadets, and in some cases, some NCSAs (such as NESA) have student programs from seniors.


Now that leads me down another train of thought, if cadets and seniors alike go to these activities and earn the same stuff (patches, ribbons, etc), why are they called National Cadet Special Activities?  Though that is a discussion for another time most likely.
TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
Chair, National IT Functional User Group
1577/2811

LSThiker

Quote from: Tim Medeiros on July 30, 2014, 01:55:09 PM
Now that leads me down another train of thought, if cadets and seniors alike go to these activities and earn the same stuff (patches, ribbons, etc), why are they called National Cadet Special Activities?  Though that is a discussion for another time most likely.

History.  The primary focus when these programs were started were cadets and Air Force job orientation (1950s).  Most programs were taught by active duty Air Force with very little senior member participation.  Over time, the Air Force participation has dropped while senior member participation has increased.

Now, if I could find out why the NCSA ribbon has no medal, while the encampment ribbon does?  I might have to send up a proposal to get that changed.

Eclipse

Can you earn it as a senior?  Then wear it.  If not, it comes off.

NESA stays, HGA goes.

"That Others May Zoom"

Tim Medeiros

Quote from: Eclipse on July 30, 2014, 03:24:34 PM
Can you earn it as a senior?  Then wear it.  If not, it comes off.

NESA stays, HGA goes.
And your regulatory guidance for that is?
TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
Chair, National IT Functional User Group
1577/2811

Eclipse

The precedent of most other similar awards.

Those that indicate they can be worn after transition either say so, or are indicated as award-able to seniors.

"That Others May Zoom"

LSThiker

Quote from: Eclipse on July 30, 2014, 04:55:55 PM
The precedent of most other similar awards.

Those that indicate they can be worn after transition either say so, or are indicated as award-able to seniors.

CAPM 39-1 states members, which is defined as cadets and senior members.  Thus, the HGA patch can be worn by seniors transitioned from being cadets:

QuoteMembers who have successfully completed an NHQ-endorsed NCSA may wear the associated patch as reflected on the NHQ-website

Besides, the HGA patch can be earned as senior member:

Quote5 Senior Mentors

1 Health Services Officer

1 Finance and Administrative Officer

1 Safety Officer

1 PAO (Can be a cadet with the apply to take pictures and write articles)5 Cadet Flight Commanders (Cadets HG experience preferred)

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

Sketch

Quote from: SarDragon on July 30, 2014, 09:24:39 AM
Aren't we talking about patches for utility uniforms here? How often are these uniforms worn at the activities you mentioned?
My point was not about a specific activity; if someone attends an NCSA regularly as a SM (that was earned while still a cadet) I think it would be appropriate to wear that patch over someone that went to it once and doesn't go anymore. It shows their commitment to that program.

FWIW I no longer wear my NCSA patches because I haven't been to them in awhile. If I go back as staff I'll probably slap them back on until I earn a new one...

Eclipse

A lot of NCSAs are "once and done" - yes they have a core staff that may stick around for years,
but a lot of members participate once and then move on to "other", and getting there at all may have
been an uphill climb of vacation time, travel expenses, etc.

For many it's a "once in a CAP lifetime" deal.

"That Others May Zoom"