Forming GTM beret

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CAPR 39-1 says:

Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear.  Berets provided
at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY.

INWG's supplement says berets can be worn

on real/training missions and exercises or unit sponsored ES training.

This could be completely legit.  Personal opinions aside, if you interpret missions and training activities to be "special activities" then the supplement holds up.

I'm not a proponent of berets but the supplement appears to (loosely) follow the word of the regs if not the intent of the regs.

[mikeylikey]

1.  Pick up beret
2.  Place 3 cans of spam in beret.
3.  Put beret in garbage can.

hahahahhaha ahahhaha hah aha  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Mountain Dew all over Mikey's keyboard!

[SSgt Rudin]

CAPR 39-1 says:

Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear.  Berets provided
at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY.

INWG's supplement says berets can be worn

on real/training missions and exercises or unit sponsored ES training.

This could be completely legit.  Personal opinions aside, if you interpret missions and training activities to be "special activities" then the supplement holds up.

I'm not a proponent of berets but the supplement appears to (loosely) follow the word of the regs if not the intent of the regs.

I'm not a legal officer (although I'm in school to become one) but on the top of the table you quoted it says "Table 1-3. Additional Items That May Be Authorized by the Wing/Region Commander"

Item three says:

The wing/region commander has authority to approve the following items for
wear within his/her wing: (a) Shoulder cords. Not more than one shoulder
cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (see
Figure 5-2). Color to be determined by the wing commander, EXCEPT all
primary members of Cadet Advisory Councils will wear gold at the National
level, blue at region level, and red at wing level. (See CAPR 52-16, CAP
Cadet Program Management.) National Cadet Competition teams will wear
white shoulder cords. Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners. Color to
be determined by wing commander except that helmet liners authorized for
wear by members participating in emergency services missions will be white
and will be worn with the decal depicted in Figure 6-20

Don't see berets anywhere in there. Item 4 says:

Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear. Berets provided at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY.

It does not say who has the authority to authorize them, there for it requires approval from the issuer of the regulation in this case NHQ.

[mikeylikey]

This is a reason we need the following added to the rewrite of 39-1

"Any and all supplements, changes, additions or deletions of any an all things remotely related to uniforms MUST be approved by NHQ, Wing and Region Commanders are not permitted to arbitrarily make any changes to 39-1 without the express permission of NHQ, and CAP-USAF for items relating to Air Force style uniforms"

How to wear the beret and shape it..........

http://armynursecorps.amedd.army.mil/army101/beret.pdf  
PAY attention specifically to pages 6 and 7!!!

[_]

It does not say who has the authority to authorize them, there for it requires approval from the issuer of the regulation in this case NHQ.

CAPR 39-1 authorizes wear of berets by all members of CAP as long as the conditions in the reg are met.  INWG is not authorizing it's wear, only specifying a meaning for "special activity" or "special purpose."  Assuming this supplement was approved by national, it would then be reasonable to assume that national allows the interpretation of "special activity"/"special purpose" that INWG uses.

[Duke Dillio]

To the question:

Shave it, then soak it, then wear it until it dries.  That's how you form it.

I always hate it when people just jump in and start dissing people.  I'm not a real big fan of berets.  I'd prefer a good patrol cap any day but I think we just need to understand that some people just really want to wear the berets.  Some will find any reason they can to do so.  I say let them wear it in the field.  Right when it is really wet and nasty or when the sun is beaming down providing a perfect red line to the top of their forehead.  Eventually, people will learn that the berets are cool only to a point and then they will lose interest in them.

I would ask that if any of you are ever wearing a beret in a CAP uniform and it is authorized for you to do so, please pay special attention on how you wear it.  It is very easy to get the "pizza boy" look and will make pretty much all of CAP look really really bad.  I think Kirt had a pic of some officer wearing it the wrong way...

[mikeylikey]

I always hate it when people just jump in and start dissing people. 

23 posts before I answed the Cadets question.  3 more bashings until you added your advice. 

That was uncalled for.  The Cadet did not create the rules or add the beret to Indiana Wing.  If anyone wants someone to bad mouth and bash and call stupid, that would be the Indiana Wing Commander, not the Cadet who is only following orders (which I think are stupid and may be illegal according to 39-1), but I am not a member of Indiana Wing and cant change things there.

[Duke Dillio]

^I'm with you on this one mikey.   :clap:

We might not agree with other wing's policies but then again, we don't have to deal with them normally.  I will answer any question that anyone has.  I'll help any cadet that wants it.  If he has been told to wear it, I just want to make sure that he wears it right regardless of my personal feelings on the matter.

[JoeTomasone]

^I'm with you on this one mikey.   :clap:

We might not agree with other wing's policies but then again, we don't have to deal with them normally.  I will answer any question that anyone has.  I'll help any cadet that wants it.  If he has been told to wear it, I just want to make sure that he wears it right regardless of my personal feelings on the matter.

Personal feelings aside, don't we have a duty to try to correct members who may be violating regulations, even if the member (INWG/CC) is being potentially corrected by proxy (CAPTALK member taking it up the chain of command)?

Now, I'm no CP expert, but my understanding was that "special activities" were CP-oriented activities outside of "normal" CP activities - NCSA's.  (http://www.cap.gov/visitors/members/cadet_programs/activities/national_special_activities/)

I doubt that any normal, routine activity (such as ground team participation) qualifies as a "special" activity or "special prpose wear".  If Ground Team activities are able to be qualified as "special", then there wouldn't be much we couldn't extend that standard to, short of a Squadron meeting, perhaps.  (Well, if it was a "special" meeting, maybe!) 

[Eclipse]

^^ Yes, especially a cadet.

The answer hear is two parts:

1) Here's how you form a beret...

2) But as a matter of fact, you are not allowed to wear it because of reg x, y, z.

The proper action by the cadet should then be to discuss this in detail with his unit CC, which one would then hope would bump things up the chain, etc.

It would not be the first time a cadet or senior got things changed because of an off-handed conversation.

We have core values and rules, they should not be subjective because of the actions of others or their perceived reactions.

[davidsinn]

The beret in question is sort of an award and falls under the

Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear

line. The special purpose is GTM/GTL/GOBD qualification. The next line in the reg

Berets provided at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY

refers to the National Blue Beret and has since been rescinded by an ICL. If you have a problem with the INWG supplement might I suggest you address it to Col. Reeves INWG Main Page is the wing website. There is a contact us link at the bottom.

[Eclipse]

The beret in question is sort of an award and falls under the

Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear

line. The special purpose is GTM/GTL/GOBD qualification.

No, it doesn't, and its been made very clear at the national level that in any case where a beret is worn by CAP members, the only way it is worn is with the NBB flash, not grade insignia, GT badges, or cadet flight cap insignia.

[davidsinn]

We wear it with senior or cadet flight cap insignia only. Could you please provide a cite? If you're correct I'll send it up to the Colonel thru my group CC this weekend and stop wearing my beret on missions.

[Stonewall]

We wear it with senior or cadet flight cap insignia only. Could you please provide a cite? If you're correct I'll send it up to the Colonel thru my group CC this weekend and stop wearing my beret on missions.

Hold the phone.  I've heard many young, impressionable cadets dreaming of wearing a beret for whatever reason, usually to look cool or "high speed", but never have I heard of anyone, in CAP or anywhere else, wearing a beret on a functional mission.

Talk about your all-time lows.

You're not a former cadet from INWG that I saw wearing a maroon beret at the Grissom air show in 2003 because he went to PJOC are you?

[JoeTomasone]

Well, I got off my butt and checked out the references in 39-1 for myself, and it turns out that INWG is  mostly correct... But the OP may be incorrect. 

Here's what CAPM 39-1, Table 1-3, pp. 13 says:

General: Wing/region commanders may authorize certain items to be worn for specific
purposes within their respective wing/region or within specific units of their
wing/region. Commanders will not use this authority to circumvent National
polices. Examples of purposes of these items are to identify members of
special CAP groups such as drill teams, bands, color guards, and members
participating in emergency services' missions.

(emphasis mine)


So Wing Commanders can authorize items worn by members participating in ES MISSIONS (not anyone who just happens to be qualified as a piece of general uniform wear).    But what can they authorize?

Items that may be authorized: 
The wing/region commander has authority to approve the following items for wear
within his/her wing: (a) Shoulder cords. Not more than one shoulder
cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (see
Figure 5-2). Color to be determined by the wing commander, EXCEPT all
primary members of Cadet Advisory Councils will wear gold at the National
level, blue at region level, and red at wing level. (See CAPR 52-16, CAP
Cadet Program Management.) National Cadet Competition teams will wear
white shoulder cords. Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners. Color to
be determined by wing commander except that helmet liners authorized for
wear by members participating in emergency services missions will be white
and will be worn with the decal depicted in Figure 6-20.

However, the issue clouds a bit:

Berets: Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear. Berets provided
at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY.

So it doesn't say who can authorize the beret, really.  It's not listed as an item that a WG/CC can authorize (cords, scarves, gloves, belts, & liners), but it's listed in the section that overall deals with what a WG/CC can authorize.   So while that requires clarification, it seems clear that a beret can only be worn under this circumstance while performing an ES mission - not in general just because you hold an ES rating.   Note: the National Board recently voted to allow Blue Beret/Hawk Mtn attendees to wear the beret at all times with BDUs. (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1851).


INWG is saying almost the right thing:

Individuals holding an active rating in the following
operational specialty areas are authorized to wear a
dark blue, Air Force style beret on real/training
missions and exercises or unit sponsored ES training.
1) Ground Branch Director
2) Ground Team Leader
3) Ground Team Member Level 1, 2 and 3

So they are being a tad more restrictive (as is their prerogative) in saying that only those rated members can wear berets, but they are saying that it can only be worn during ES missions (correct) and training (not authorized, wording used in 39-1 does not include training).


Barracks Lawyer out!

[davidsinn]

I am not a former cadet at all. I've only been a member since 2006. Some of our best ground teams and leaders wear berets. I can name people from at least 4 units that do (I think one of our Group CCs does). There is no (non regulatory) reason you couldn't wear a beret in the field here in Indiana. We have pretty wide open places and if you use sunscreen you won't get an odd burn. Fact is the members have been authorized by our wing CC to wear them and like to wear them. Whether it was approved by higher command is the question and can't be answered by anyone here right now. If you could please provide me the cite I will address it up the chain this weekend and get back to you.

[Stonewall]

Sometimes regulations (or lack there of) shouldn't guide us, but rather common sense and humility.

Beret in the field = rediculous.  You think you look cool and may feel elite, but in my 21 years in CAP I have yet to see the need for a beret of any color designate one's qualifications, in or out of the field. 

The person who authorized such headgear for field use should have their "man card" taken from them.

[CadetProgramGuy]

[hits head on table]

Berets for GTL's ect.....sounds a little too much like PAWG.....

[/hits head on table]

[davidsinn]

Beret in the field = rediculous.  You think you look cool and may feel elite, but in my 21 years in CAP I have yet to see the need for a beret of any color designate one's qualifications, in or out of the field.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I disagree. I find it to be a comfortable alternative to the patrol cap.

[0]

While I like the look of a beret in the field I think it's a horrible idea myself.  It's too Rambo looking.  Plus it doesn't serve any function.  If you don't like wearing a patrol cap if your wing has also authorized them wear an orange baseball cap.  That's more comfortable and is also actually useful.