CAP Height/Weight Standards for Uniform wear and BMI

[billford1]

There was always an exclusion for people with facial hair wasn't there?

[Gunner C]

There was always an exclusion for people with facial hair wasn't there?

Back in those days, I never saw a CAP member with facial hair.  I think the same thing happened to the Army Guard back in the 70s when they threw grooming standards out the window.  If you were on state duty, you could have a pony tail - you just had to have a short hair wig.  A guardsman didn't have to get a haircut until they went to active duty over a certain length (I think it was over 30 days). 

It appears CAP did the same.  They found a way to keep the numbers up by saying we don't care what you look like - we're throwing our image out the window because we can't recruit enough folks.  The guard dropped that mess back in the late 80s IIRC.  CAP never did. 

I think it's about time we followed suit.  If a person is more in love with their beard than CAP, no problem.  Give them a handshake, thank them for their service, and bid a fond farewell. CAP could use a smaller, more dedicated force.

[cap235629]

GREAT ATTITUDE GUNNER!

Goatee=Not dedicated

I wish I lived in your black and white world

[Gunner C]

GREAT ATTITUDE GUNNER!

Goatee=Not dedicated

I wish I lived in your black and white world

Didn't say that.  Get some glasses.  Not dedicated enough to present a professional appearance.  I'm disabled, but I work hard to keep my weight down as much as possible, usually one hour/day.  How we are perceived by the military and the public is directly proportional to how well we're utilized. 

When a military or government guy is expecting to see a Lt or a Capt and a guy with a beard shows up, it throws their expectations all out of whack.  For these folks, appearance is important.

I was in the dark side of the military for a while.  When we showed up with long hair and fuzz on our faces, it took a great deal to get folks' attitude turned around.  Heck, we had to do extra urine tests just to prove that we weren't a bunch of drug-crazed dopers.

If you don't think that golf shirts, bad haircuts, and facial hair hurt us just as much as being 400 lbs in the eyes of our parent service, you're fooling yourself.

[Nick]

I was in the dark side of the military for a while.  When we showed up with long hair and fuzz on our faces, it took a great deal to get folks' attitude turned around.  Heck, we had to do extra urine tests just to prove that we weren't a bunch of drug-crazed dopers.

If you don't think that golf shirts, bad haircuts, and facial hair hurt us just as much as being 400 lbs in the eyes of our parent service, you're fooling yourself.

Um. That's a big roger. I can't think of any way to put it more clearly than that.

[Spike]

However military rules on grooming are there for a purpose.  Does CAP wear MOPP gear?  Do we serve in close quarters where lice could be a problem? 

There is a certain point where we should present a well groomed appearance, but well groomed to military folks is different than well groomed to guys that have worn a beard for 40 years.

I seriously doubt long hair or five-0-clock shadows will hurt our abilities to carry out our tasks.

Don't forget we will lose more folks over stricter grooming standards than we could recruit.

Anyway isn't this supposed to be about BMI or something??

[heliodoc]

ALL that facial hair in CAP, is that really a problem

How about some of those SOF operators, those SWAT guys, cops, fire etc

They all wear a uniform of one type or another......yeah yeah yeah I know ..."we are an aux of the AF"

Are those operators listed above any LESS professional or competent with "facial hair?"

Some CAPers NEEEED to get a life  WOW

Facial hair not allowing tasks to get done competently??  REAAAAALLY???

[Eclipse]

Goatee=Not dedicated

I wish I lived in your black and white world

Goatee does not equal "Not Dedicated".

Goatee = "Hippie".

I wish I lived in your black and white world

Hippies aren't invited, you've got your drum circles, be happy with that...

[Spike]

^ Funniest thing all day!  Thanks.....now I will go shave my Goatee   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

From the Royal New Zealand Air Force Air Cadets, where the adult instructors are actually real officers and wear the exact same uniform as the actual RNZAF, except for distinguishing shoulder flash:

http://cadetforces.mil.nz/image-gallery/juniorleadersohakeaapril20/cdt-connor-top-cadet-syn-3.html

I really doubt this dedicated officer would meet H/W standards to wear the USAF type uniform in CAP, but obviously the Queen has no objections to his wearing Her uniform.

[Short Field]

Facial hair - really how much more unprofessional can you get?

http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/09/43827.jpg

[PhotogPilot]

Goatee=Not dedicated

I wish I lived in your black and white world

Goatee does not equal "Not Dedicated".

Goatee = "Hippie".

I wish I lived in your black and white world

Hippies aren't invited, you've got your drum circles, be happy with that...

If you don't do something about your Giggling Stoners and the Drum Circle, soon you'll get something much worse:




The College-Know-It-All-Hippie

[Gunner C]

Facial hair - really how much more unprofessional can you get?

http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/09/43827.jpg

Actually, the military has a HUGE problem with that.  In the 1980s (I was an operator back then) the army had returned to it's "high and tight" haircuts.  I was in the 7th SF Group back then which had the Latin American mission.  The chain of command wanted us to go down there with high and tights.  We fought tooth and nail to get this changed.  Not because it looked stupid, but because in Latin American countries, the only military folks who had that type of haircut were basic trainees and prisoners.  We got it changed because it was cultural - it gave the wrong message.  The SF folks in Afghanistan (SEALs, too) are wearing beards.  People who don't have beards in those cultures are viewed as effeminate.  They need to have beards when working with those cultures.  It helps to cut through the differences in their worlds. When they go back to the states they're clean-shaven. 

If we're going to operate in the USAF culture, we need to conform to what makes them comfortable.  When we show up with beards, sloppy uniforms, too tubby for our flight suits, etc, we offend that AF culture.  It won't matter how well we do our jobs - the comment will be "did you see the size of that guy with the beard?"

[billford1]

I work hard to make my Corporate gray and BBDU uniforms look spec'd out. There's a new club emerging in CAP. They are fairly new members and the majority are prior Military and wear a goatee. There's a difference between having a neatly trimmed beard and having a slovenly appearance. I heard sentiment expressed that people with facial hair should be bade farewell. Are you considering that with obese people as well or is it just people with facial hair? If I were looking at people to cull out I would consider those who refuse to wear whatever uniform it is correctly. If the bearded and/or heavyset member wears their uniform neatly and respectfully I think it is short sighted to want the bearded folks go especially if their beards are groomed. I sense that the AF aren't as concerned with such things. The times I've seen angst among observing Military folks is when the uniform they see is worn in such a way that it is considered disrespectful.

[RiverAux]

Threat about height/weight standards, not facial hair.  Just saying...