NCO Insignia

[MIKE]

I wonder if the USCG will change over to whatever the USAF comes up with.  They adopted the cardigan.

[Hawk200]

I wonder if the USCG will change over to whatever the USAF comes up with.  They adopted the cardigan.

I'd let them have the cardigan if we could keep the Woolly Pully.

[JC004]

I wonder if the USCG will change over to whatever the USAF comes up with.  They adopted the cardigan.

I'd let them have the cardigan if we could keep the Woolly Pully.

Ditto.

[PHall]

The wooly-pooleys are being phased out as well. Not sure about the cardigan.

Cardigan is staying, according to the last article I read about it

The current pullover sweater is to be replaced with another style of pullover sweater: with a leather nameplate, if Air force Times is to be believed.

The fate of the "Mr. Rogers' sweater" will depend on how the new pullover fares.

The Wooly Pully is being replaced with a lighter weight version.
The current version is good if you're outdoors, but it's too warm to wear indoors.
And according to the AF Times the black/brown leather nametag that is worn with the leather A2 flight jacket will be worn on the new sweater. That should look better and be a lot easier to position then the metal nametag we now wear on the wooly pully.

According to the same AF Times article, very few males wear the Cardigan.

[Cecil DP]

The wooly-pooleys are being phased out as well. Not sure about the cardigan.

Cardigan is staying, according to the last article I read about it

The current pullover sweater is to be replaced with another style of pullover sweater: with a leather nameplate, if Air force Times is to be believed.

The fate of the "Mr. Rogers' sweater" will depend on how the new pullover fares.

The Wooly Pully is being replaced with a lighter weight version.
The current version is good if you're outdoors, but it's too warm to wear indoors.
And according to the AF Times the black/brown leather nametag that is worn with the leather A2 flight jacket will be worn on the new sweater. That should look better and be a lot easier to position then the metal nametag we now wear on the wooly pully.

According to the same AF Times article, very few males wear the Cardigan.

That's because they were originally part of the uniform for medical personnel (Nurses)

[Hawk200]

The Wooly Pully is being replaced with a lighter weight version.
The current version is good if you're outdoors, but it's too warm to wear indoors.
And according to the AF Times the black/brown leather nametag that is worn with the leather A2 flight jacket will be worn on the new sweater. That should look better and be a lot easier to position then the metal nametag we now wear on the wooly pully.

I can live with that. Didn't realize there would still be a version available. It's a sharp looking item that works. Hopefully the newer version will be just as useful.

According to the same AF Times article, very few males wear the Cardigan.

Gee, wonder why? 

[Hawk200]

That's because they were originally part of the uniform for medical personnel (Nurses)

The cardigan was? I remember medical personnel wearing a white cardigan. Haven't seen anyone wearing a blue one with medical whites, although it might work. The white one just looked a little funny regardless of who wore it.

[afgeo4]

If the new AF wooly pooley will have our brown/black flight patch then will we be required to wear a different one for distinction purposes? Hopefully we can just wear our flightsuit patch.

[ddelaney103]

The Wooly Pully is being replaced with a lighter weight version.
The current version is good if you're outdoors, but it's too warm to wear indoors.
And according to the AF Times the black/brown leather nametag that is worn with the leather A2 flight jacket will be worn on the new sweater. That should look better and be a lot easier to position then the metal nametag we now wear on the wooly pully.

I can live with that. Didn't realize there would still be a version available. It's a sharp looking item that works. Hopefully the newer version will be just as useful.

According to the same AF Times article, very few males wear the Cardigan.

Gee, wonder why? 

Too macho to be seen in the Mr Rogers?  I dunno - I wore it all the time at JMIC.  It was the only gear you could wear buttoned or unbuttoned: that was great when the temp changed from room to room.  Pulling off the pullover a couple of times would get you a shirt full of lint and hair like Beakman's World.

The Army and Navy would wear the short black jackets ("Pentagon Battle Dress").  Now that you can wear the lightweight blue jacket indoors I'd move to that if they lose the cardigan.

[afgeo4]

Speaking of Navy... doesn't their black pull-over sweater have a flight swim patch on it?

[MIKE]

Yep.

[SeattleSarge]

After many discussions with Susan Parker at NHQ (who was very helpful), I put together the following summary of NCO insignia guidance;

1.  Gray embroidered NCO epaulets are for wear with the Aviator Shirt-Gray Pants combination.

2.  Blue embroidered NCO epaulets (No "CAP") are for wear with the corporate Aviator Shirt-Blue Pants combination.  E-5 and E-6, plus the top three.

3.  Sewn-on stripes are worn with the USAF blue shirt, USAF dress blue jacket, BDUs and BBDUs.  Note:  The flight cap is worn with blue piping and the CAP emblem.

4.  No NCO rank insignia is worn with the flight duty uniform (flight suit).  Rank is indicated on the leather name plate.

Ms. Parker advised that there is no guidance on NCO wear of the TPU. 

I'm hoping that the efforts of CMSgt Chaifos will help push a clear, coherent policy on this topic.

-SeattleSarge

[Trung Si Ma]

Thanks Ron.

I sent an e-mail to Vanguard telling them that I needed to sets of the MSgt gray epaulets yesterday (Korea time) and have yet to hear from them.  I am back in CONUS next week and will call them directly.

I wish that I had the foresight to bring lieutenant epaulets with me so that I could take them downtown at Osan today and get some custom ones made.

[afgeo4]

After many discussions with Susan Parker at NHQ (who was very helpful), I put together the following summary of NCO insignia guidance;

1.  Gray embroidered NCO epaulets are for wear with the Aviator Shirt-Gray Pants combination.

They aren't being sold, to my knowledge.

2.  Blue embroidered NCO epaulets (No "CAP") are for wear with the corporate Aviator Shirt-Blue Pants combination.  E-5 and E-6, plus the top three.

I believe E-4 to E-6 don't exist. USAF has epaulets for MSgt and above. E-4 is included into NCO grades because USA, USMC and USN have E-4 NCOs.

3.  Sewn-on stripes are worn with the USAF blue shirt, USAF dress blue jacket, BDUs and BBDUs.  Note:  The flight cap is worn with blue piping and the CAP emblem.

You mean the Senior Member flight cap device?

4.  No NCO rank insignia is worn with the flight duty uniform (flight suit).  Rank is indicated on the leather name plate.

Just like all military branches, makes sense.

Ms. Parker advised that there is no guidance on NCO wear of the TPU.

You just said to wear the blue epaulets... I would assume one would put on the enamel pin on rank on the service coat with cap cutouts on lapels? 

I'm hoping that the efforts of CMSgt Chaifos will help push a clear, coherent policy on this topic.

-SeattleSarge

[Pylon]

Ms. Parker advised that there is no guidance on NCO wear of the TPU. 

That's why I hate these instant brand-new uniform roll-outs with no forethought from NHQ or whomever develops them.

We release a new uniform.  Whoops!  We forgot about [flight officers/NCOs/Senior Members without grade/some other group]... here's a change to fix that.

Whoops!  We forgot that there are CAP members in climates colder than ours.  Guess we had better come up with some outerwear.  Here's a change to fix that.

Whoops!  We forgot that we had females in Civil Air Patrol; guess we need to develop a uniform for them, too.

Whoops!  We forgot to offer specific guidance on wearing of X, Y, and Z.  Let's see if we can come up with something... here's a interim change letter.

Whoops!  We're adding a new patch/badge/insignia.  Here's an interim change letter.  Place the new doohicky here on Space ABC.

Whoops!  We forgot that we already put something else in Space ABC.  Let's see..... here's an interim change letter to put that somewhere else.

Whoops!  We forgot that we mandated wear of F, G, H, and I and also authorized the wear of J and K, but Vanguard doesn't make the insignia yet.  Guess you'll have to wait.

Whoops!  We don't know how to look at the big picture.  Please, stop us from making any more changes before we hurt ourselves.

[JC004]

Go Pylon! 

[afgeo4]

LOL probably cause they're not authorized by anyone?  Is this another attempt by Vanguard to create demand before there's a product?

They're authorized for wear with the TPU.  That's what you're supposed to wear... blue epaulet sleeves with embroidered grade insignia.

Where does it say that NCO's and Flight Officers wear blue epaulet sleeves with embroidered grade insignia on TPU?

[JC004]

LOL probably cause they're not authorized by anyone?  Is this another attempt by Vanguard to create demand before there's a product?

They're authorized for wear with the TPU.  That's what you're supposed to wear... blue epaulet sleeves with embroidered grade insignia.

Where does it say that NCO's and Flight Officers wear blue epaulet sleeves with embroidered grade insignia on TPU?

On a notepad in Ms. Parker's office since everyone else forgot.   

[afgeo4]

LOL probably cause they're not authorized by anyone?  Is this another attempt by Vanguard to create demand before there's a product?

They're authorized for wear with the TPU.  That's what you're supposed to wear... blue epaulet sleeves with embroidered grade insignia.

Where does it say that NCO's and Flight Officers wear blue epaulet sleeves with embroidered grade insignia on TPU?

On a notepad in Ms. Parker's office since everyone else forgot.   

She must have a stack of notepads by now lol

[jimmydeanno]

Here'a a picture of her desk...



Not actually her desk, but humorous none the less...