AAFES Telephone Purchase help

[PHall]

Everyone seems to jumping to conclusions about the CAP AAFES relationship. Take a step back and realize that tbese issues are larger than CAP. AAFES as a whole is experiencing serious problems:

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/2014/11/13/army-and-air-force-exchange-service-website-problems/18976103/

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/retail/aafes.html

I called the other day because my login account disappeared. They could not find my SSN to demonstrate that I was a member of the Armed Forces. I had to fax in my military ID to get added. 

Anyway, go ahead and continue arguing about how this is CAP's fault.

I would check to see if you're still enrolled in DEERS too. Supposedly the same database.

[LSThiker]

I would check to see if you're still enrolled in DEERS too. Supposedly the same database.

I think it was more user error than anything else.

[LTC Don]

Spot on about the retention issue.  To have stuff like this happen to members who are trying to do right in good faith is unacceptably demeaning and morale-killing.  Same thing when members try to go on base with good success one week, and then the next week the SPs suddenly play stupid and have never heard of CAP, making the member(s) feel like they've done something wrong and should be punished.

It's a very old and tiring story. 

[Nuke52]

I called the other day because my login account disappeared. They could not find my SSN to demonstrate that I was a member of the Armed Forces. I had to fax in my military ID to get added. 

I would check to see if you're still enrolled in DEERS too. Supposedly the same database.

I would check to see if you're still in the military.  Ya never know...   

[Nuke52]

CAP distinctive uniforms (grey and whites, the blazer combo, blue BDU, and Blue Flight suits may be purchase from any source.
The Hock Shop was (and others) were told not to produce and sell CAP distinctive insignia....

Negative, NHQ has C&Ds other vendors for selling things as generic as nametapes with standard english words,
not to mention vendors who were official SPONSORS of CAP.

On this AAFES problem.

This is a problem.

CAP NHQ is aware of it and is trying to fix it.

What more can you ask for?

Proactivity in the relationships.  That should not be difficult when you have only two vendors.

Yet...

Standard English words, yes.  But words invented by the Civil Air Patrol (TM).  I hope I don't get a C&D for writing that...  I meant one of those other Civil Air Patrols that are buying so many Cessnas from Independence, KS, USA!

Eclipse, why ya gotta hate?  Let the men drink their Kool-aid!  NHQ is aware, and everything will be fine...

[RiverAux]

Hmm, Coast Guard has a nice easy-to-use web site that everyone in the CG family can use to order uniform items.  No muss, no fuss.  You'd think that the AF would be able to figure it out. 

[lordmonar]

Hmm, Coast Guard has a nice easy-to-use web site that everyone in the CG family can use to order uniform items.  No muss, no fuss.  You'd think that the AF would be able to figure it out.

To be technical AAFES is not the Air Force.

[PHall]

Hmm, Coast Guard has a nice easy-to-use web site that everyone in the CG family can use to order uniform items.  No muss, no fuss.  You'd think that the AF would be able to figure it out.

To be technical AAFES is not the Air Force.

AAFES belongs to the Department of Defense. Just like the Defense Commissary Agency (DeCA).

[Ned]

Through our colleagues at CAP-USAF, we have periodically engaged with AAFES in an effort to provide precisely what many of you are seeking - a convenient way to purchase authorized uniform items on-line.  The major problem is that their web-based services interface with DEERS / RAPIDS to provide access, and, obviously, CAP members are not in DEERS (unless individuals also happen to be servicemembers, retirees, contracors, DoD civilians, or dependants.)

It is easy to say, "well, let's just add CAP members into the DEERS database or just open a stand-alone CAP 'uniform stuff only' page that interfaces with eServices for access. But the reality is difficult, costly, and from AAFES's perspective, simply infeasible.

CP has been particularly enthusiastic in pursuing this solution to assist us with administering the FCU program.  Imagine how easy and effective it would be for cadets (and / or parents) to log onto the uniform portion of the AAFES website and -- using a pre-supplied FCU voucher -- simply order the necessary uniforms.  Which would be delivered to their door days later.

But so far, AAFES indicates that it would cost a great deal of money to alter their secure web processes, and we have been unable to convince them otherwise.  They are good people who genuinely want to increase their level of service to CAP and our members, but they cannot see a way forward for web-based services until significant resources can be identified to create a secure interface.

Perhaps that will change someday . . .

[RiverAux]

Hmm, Coast Guard has a nice easy-to-use web site that everyone in the CG family can use to order uniform items.  No muss, no fuss.  You'd think that the AF would be able to figure it out.

To be technical AAFES is not the Air Force.

I was suggesting that the AF would figure out a way to secure relatively easy access to this for their Auxiliary not that they ran it. 

The major problem is that their web-based services interface with DEERS / RAPIDS to provide access, and, obviously, CAP members are not in DEERS (unless individuals also happen to be servicemembers, retirees, contracors, DoD civilians, or dependants.)

I'm in no way an internet security expert but having to provide this level of access to a store seems like a major vulnerability itself.  Seems like it would be a lot safer to figure out an alternative way of doing things for everyone (and perhaps helping CAP out a bit in the meantime). 

In regards to getting CAP in this system, I'd say that if they can figure out a way to do it for the Red Cross, military members of foreign nations, military contractors, they may be able to figure it out for us. 

Hmm, wonder if it is any easier for CG Aux members to use (they are authorized limited privileges)

[Eclipse]

Broke this quoting it, see below.

[Ned]

Seems like it would be a lot safer to figure out an alternative way of doing things for everyone (and perhaps helping CAP out a bit in the meantime). 

Well, sure.  We talked about setting up a "CAP member only"  front page for uniform items  with a stand-alone payment system, but it would still need to connect to their fulfillment system.  Which was amazingly complicated and not feasible without significant coding resources.

In regards to getting CAP in this system, I'd say that if they can figure out a way to do it for the Red Cross, military members of foreign nations, military contractors, they may be able to figure it out for us.

I think we may be talking a bit of apples and oranges here.  Red Cross members, foreign military, etc., may certainly be authorized AAFES access, but that is to physical facilities only - not the website which is what I thought we were talking about.  Just like CAP members occupying government quarters also have wide AAFES privileges - but only  at brick and mortar locations.

And while we're all standing here wishing?  What's the current solution?

Oh, I'll bet you already know the answer.  While you are standing around wishing and complaining, the rest of us are using the sources and procedures described in CAPR 39-1, para 1.3:

1.  CAP members have 24/7 web access VG for all CAP uniforms and insignia. 

2.  We also have access to physical AAFES facilities for authorized uniform items.

3.  We also have access for AAFES AFMCSS mail order.  See paragraph 1.3.2.1 for details.  I've used it for the best prices.

4.  And, of course, we can also order from the catalog using phone or fax as described in paragraph 1.3.2.1.  It sounds like there is a temporary issue with some procedures on the AAFES side of the house for this particular method, but those issues are being worked.

But thanks for asking.

[RiverAux]

Their web site says authorized members have access to the ecommerce store and the link of authorized members includes the groups I mentioned.   I certainly wouldn't rule out that their site doesn't explain it correctly. 

[Eclipse]

Oh, I'll bet you already know the answer.  While you are standing around wishing and complaining,

Um, I'm not the one "wishing"...

Perhaps that will change someday . . .

the rest of us are using the sources and procedures described in CAPR 39-1, para 1.3:

Really?

1.  CAP members have 24/7 web access VG for all CAP uniforms and insignia. 

So I guess you missed the part where VG doesn't sell service coats or waist jackets and
gets a pretty good buck more for blues shirts and wheel caps?

2.  We also have access to physical AAFES facilities for authorized uniform items.

Who's "we"?  You know very well that the number of members with physical access to an MCSS,
especially a USAF one is laughably small, not to mention the goat rope it can be to get on some bases.

3.  We also have access for AAFES AFMCSS mail order.  See paragraph 1.3.2.1 for details.  I've used it for the best prices.

4.  And, of course, we can also order from the catalog using phone or fax as described in paragraph 1.3.2.1.  It sounds like there is a temporary issue with some procedures on the AAFES side of the house for this particular method, but those issues are being worked.

Yes, worked because a member had a problem and brought it to the attention of NHQ, meanwhile whomever is
responsible for the relationship with AAFES apparently has better things to do - perhaps he was preoccupied with
ordering foil for the upcoming special edition of the magazine.

Quoting 39-1's policy about doing something when the company has no idea who CAP is, doesn't really amount to much,
which is the point of this thread.  CAP is supposed to have access to all sorts of resources as canonized in
AR's and AFIs, not to mention reciprocal service agreements, but the reality is quite different in many cases
because no one is husbanding these relationships.  The shrinkage of CAP-USAF hasn't made this any better,
but ultimately it's an NHQ issue.

Again, you can deflect all you like, criticize people for taking issue with these kinds of things,
and pretend it's a "new / temporary issue", or, maybe get people to step up and do the jobs they have agreed to do,
whether those people are volunteers, or especially paid staff.

Stuff happens, systems fail, so be it, but there's no excuse for NHQ being unaware of the issue, nor
of not notifying the membership.  This AAFES situation has been a problem since the 90's, as evidenced
by the steady stream of messages and issues as memorialized on this board.  It's neither "new" nor "temporary" unless you're
insinuating that the fix "being worked" is the last time it will be an issue.

[Luis R. Ramos]

From Nuke:
Eclipse, why ya gotta hate?

Why if someone has or states a negative comment based on their life experience (s)he is labelled a hater? Or that (s)he hates something or someone or some group?

Wait, Nuke said something negative about Eclipse, so I will adopt his/her attitude. Nuke, why do you hate Eclipse? See how dumb that sounds? 

[Eclipse]

^ Yeah, I almost said something, but whatever.  It's part and parcel of the "internet of things" and
diminishes the real power of words like that to the point that they have no meaning whatsoever.

These days everybody "hates", is "bullied" or is "triggered"...

Blah.

[MSG Mac]

Wonder how that's going.

Either way...a half mil contract is nothing to sneeze at. No reason they would ever say "CAP whowat?".

Some of their reviews are quite hilarious. If it wasn't for a family business, maybe I'd send a resume in for their ecommerce manager role.

The CAP "Free Cadet Uniforms" don't come from AAFEES, they come directly from the Air Force supply at Lackland AFB.

[PHall]

From Nuke:
Eclipse, why ya gotta hate?

Why if someone has or states a negative comment based on their life experience (s)he is labelled a hater? Or that (s)he hates something or someone or some group?

Wait, Nuke said something negative about Eclipse, so I will adopt his/her attitude. Nuke, why do you hate Eclipse? See how dumb that sounds? 

Luis R. Ramos, why are YOU a hater?  Does it feel better when you're the target?

Please sir, don't continue the stupidity...

[Ned]

Bob,

The absolute weight of unhappiness you bring with you to this board must be quite a burden.

So let's sum up, shall we?

Of the three completely separate vendors that supply uniforms to the membership (AAFES, VG, and AFMCSS), the least-used method (AAFES telephone catalog ordering) apparently has a recent and fixable problem.  In the meantime, all uniform items are available via one or more of the other three alternatives.

You were kind enough to provide some prompt assistance to the cadet OP.

Again, you can deflect all you like, criticize people for taking issue with these kinds of things,
and pretend it's a "new / temporary issue", or, maybe get people to step up and do the jobs they have agreed to do, whether those people are volunteers, or especially paid staff.

I don't (and haven't) criticized people for noting problems and taking the appropriate corrective actions in order to get them fixed. It sounds like Robert H did exactly that when he notified NHQ of the problem.

Stuff happens, systems fail, so be it, but there's no excuse for NHQ being unaware of the issue, nor
of not notifying the membership.  This AAFES situation has been a problem since the 90's, as evidenced
by the steady stream of messages and issues as memorialized on this board.

AAFES is only 1 of the three authorized vendors.  NHQ has arranged for two completely separate methods (AFMCSS and VG) for members to reliably obtain needed uniforms.  Sounds at least a little bit like they are addressing the issue to me.

You yourself provided the links where NHQ lays out the specific procedures for mail and telephone ordering from AAFES.  Between those links and the 39-1, I'm not sure what else NHQ can do to "notify the membership."

36 states have active Air Force installations with MCSS .  It would be interesting to see what percentage of CAP members live within an hour or two of one, but it is likely the majority of our membership.

And for those who don't, the AFMCSS mail order system works fine.

Many members choose to use VG.  As you point out, they don't have service coats.  But they certainly have all the required uniforms.

Some members use the telephone ordering system.  It is admittedly cumbersome, but it has been quick and efficient in the past once your membership card is on file.

And, of course, some members benefit from internal CAP supplies or even commercial sources.

So, not counting internal CAP or commercial supplies, we have three completely separate vendors for CAP uniforms to ensure easy access, decent prices, and constant supply.

But given all of the available resources, the number of members who cannot obtain uniforms or insignia in a reasonable amount of time and at a reasonable price is virtually non-existent.

Again, thank you for your helpful response to the OP.

[Eclipse]

The absolute weight of unhappiness you bring with you to this board must be quite a burden.

Does pretending the glass is 1/2-full help alleviate the tension headache from the sound of members
asking the same questions and having the same problems they had 10 years ago with no more
resolution on the horizon then...

Perhaps that will change someday . . .

Next you'll ask what I have done to fix the problem.