Proper placement of badges on BDUs and Field Uniforms

[MIKE]

1 March 2010 according to the minutes.

[DNall]

It doesn't say they have to match, but you know it looks better, and I'd strongly be encouraging people around me to do it. Chief can make up his own mind, but I think he'd probably understand the logic on this & adjust.

You're right, i do think they look better, but I don't like the idea that I HAVE to have all my patches be the same- if I came from the RealMilitary™ that is, when the regs say I don't.  If NHQ thought that they should all be the same, they would've written themthat way, but lets not go off on that tangent please.

Cheif's got that uniform guide out that spends something like 20 pages explaining things the reg doesn't say you HAVE to do but you really do.

The reg gives the minimum information for an experienced person to be able to extrapolate the right thing to do with corrective peer guidance. That's how the mil regs are too. With CAP members, that doesn't work so well, so the regs are somewhat inadequate. It's pretty straight forward that you shouldn't mix badges. Just like you shouldn't mix mini & large badges on blues.

[Hawk200]

It's pretty straight forward that you shouldn't mix badges. Just like you shouldn't mix mini & large badges on blues.

Mixing sizes on blues is actually addressed in the manual. Mixing subdued and non isn't, although it does say specifically that subdued military badges are authorized, and that you are permitted to wear up to two badges on the BDU (Although the specific issue of mixing isn't addressed. Perhaps National does not even consider it an issue.) If I had a subdued and a non-subdued badge that the rules would allow me to wear the subdued on top, I would do it. I wouldn't put a color top with the subdued on bottom for the simple fact that it looks odd to me. I wouldn't tell someone that they couldn't. I'd tell them it does look strange though.

I have a little problem with the "the reg doesn't say you have to, but....." . If someone honestly doesn't know, and you tell them otherwise, how credible do you look if you can't back it up with something in black and white?

Also, a lot of people throw their personnel opinion on uniform wear into things, and they don't know better. The worst instance I dealt with was someone telling someone else that he couldn't wear his Combat Infantry Badge "because it's Army". I got a hold of a 39-1, and showed the guy where he was wrong. His response was "Well, the manual says you can do it, but you really shouldn't." It's a pretty similar argument.

Where do we draw the line between "should" and "shouldn't"? If it's not in the manual, and doesn't fit under the clause of "professional, well groomed appearance which will reflect credit upon CAP", how do you enforce it? If you can't back it up, then a reasonable person may consider your attempt as harassment.

[Pylon]

I have a little problem with the "the reg doesn't say you have to, but....." . If someone honestly doesn't know, and you tell them otherwise, how credible do you look if you can't back it up with something in black and white?

I don't think there's any lack of credibility there. 

"The reg doesn't say you have to trim those protruding nose hairs down, but...."

"The reg doesn't say you have to put some effort towards using some mouthwash and a mint, but your breath... *cough*"

"The reg doesn't say you have to clean out all that dirt and crud from under your fingernails, but..."

"The reg doesn't say you can't use that flourescent green thread to sew on your GT badge, but..."

Get my point?  The regulation leaves a lot of leeway.  But if you're aiming for a professional image that looks spot on to both CAP members and members of the public, there's an overall package to consider.  Yep, you need to wear a sharp uniform.  But you also need to take care of other things the regulation doesn't cover.  You'd still be "within the regulation" but I'd recommend you go a bit further in many circumstances to aim for that professional image.

YMMV.

[Hawk200]

"The reg doesn't say you have to trim those protruding nose hairs down, but...."

I'd start with this" "All commanders will ensure that all members, individually and collectively, present a professional, well-groomed appearance, which will reflect credit upon CAP as the auxiliary of the United States Air Force."

"The reg doesn't say you have to put some effort towards using some mouthwash and a mint, but your breath... *cough*"

Personally, I'd reference the above. You could address it in other manners, such as the personal presence issue, as personal cleanliness, or even as an oral health issue. But I'll concede that it is not specifically addressed.

"The reg doesn't say you have to clean out all that dirt and crud from under your fingernails, but..."

I would definitely address this under "well groomed". "Well groomed" may not be defined in the manual, but the only people I know that don't understand what it means are usually children that have not yet learned what it means yet, or people that are not mentally competent.

"The reg doesn't say you can't use that flourescent green thread to sew on your GT badge, but..."

Simple professional appearance. It may not say that it should be like colored thread, but an overall general concensus would probably show that it is indeed the "professional" thing to do.

....The regulation leaves a lot of leeway. 

Not as much as people might think. Regulations are meant to be complied with. Unless specifically permitted, something is not allowed. Many people use the "it's not forbidden" reasoning to justify violating the spirit of the reg. That is inappropriate and unprofessional. And it tends to branch into other areas as well. Besides, can you imagine how big a reg would have to be to address all the things that weren't allowed? I wouldn't want to carry a copy of any one of them that does.

But if you're aiming for a professional image that looks spot on to both CAP members and members of the public, there's an overall package to consider.  Yep, you need to wear a sharp uniform. 

Agreed. Having spent time on active duty, there are things that are taught to present the sharpest appearance possible. The uniform must be treated with due consideration. I find it amazing that people will have suits dry cleaned and pressed, or their dress shirt starched, or will actually shine the shoes they wear to church, but don't think that a uniform should be treated with the same consideration. If it helps them, they should think of doing the same thing to a different set of clothes. It would be far easier.

But you also need to take care of other things the regulation doesn't cover.  You'd still be "within the regulation" but I'd recommend you go a bit further in many circumstances to aim for that professional image.

The reg must be read in its entirety. There are a lot of things people tend to gloss over, or consider unimportant. The entire reg must be read, and applied, not the parts that happen to register in our heads. There are things that some people consider "a little bit further" but in reality are actually part of the standard.

[Stonewall]

Just got an email back from Spur and then made my order.  Looks like they mostly have Army badges and maybe some Air Force aeronautical ratings, but they didn't have the AF Security Forces badge.

Hello,

We can make basic parachutist and Air Assault badges.  You will have to order through an email or call your in.  They are $2.00 each.

Thanks
Teresa Roberts
http://www.1800nametape.com
Spur Name Tapes
1-800-626-3827
text

I know this thread is older than some cadets, but when looking through it, I didn't post a picture of the products I got back from Spur Name Tapes.  They may seem a bit off in the picture, but I will admit they are identical to the badges I wore on my Army BDUs.



For all of you former military types who wish to wear matching military/CAP badges, I highly recommend calling these folks.

[Hawk200]

For all of you former military types who wish to wear matching military/CAP badges, I highly recommend calling these folks.

I know that there are people that don't like it, but I wear the subdued on green badges. As cluttered as the uniform looks, I think it keeps it a little cleaner. And even though I think that people should wear what they've earned, I've actually been doing the minimalist thing. It's a lot less sewing.

[Stonewall]

Yes, some folks like to keep their subdued wings on for some reason, but I disagree with it helps it look cleaner.  Except for patches, which most of us don't have to wear, everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).  I think it looks more professional to have everything the same (as in uni-form) than from different organizations:  Military= Subdued,  CAP= White on Blue.  YMMV.

[Hawk200]

Yes, some folks like to keep their subdued wings on for some reason, but I disagree with it helps it look cleaner.  Except for patches, which most of us don't have to wear, everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).  I think it looks more professional to have everything the same (as in uni-form) than from different organizations:  Military= Subdued,  CAP= White on Blue.  YMMV.

To each their own I guess. I just don't have sufficient justification to go getting custom insignia made up when there is something already authorized that works, and more readily available.

I still think the white on blue is rather garish. If we went to something a little darker, I might actually consider getting custom stuff done. But for now, I use the cheap stuff. Don't worry though, I spend a lot for time making sure they're sewn properly.

[JC004]

Yes, some folks like to keep their subdued wings on for some reason, but I disagree with it helps it look cleaner.  Except for patches, which most of us don't have to wear, everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).  I think it looks more professional to have everything the same (as in uni-form) than from different organizations:  Military= Subdued,  CAP= White on Blue.  YMMV.

waaaaaait a minute.  Since when were CAP "uniforms" have a "same" theme going on?

[Falshrmjgr]

Just got an email back from Spur and then made my order.  Looks like they mostly have Army badges and maybe some Air Force aeronautical ratings, but they didn't have the AF Security Forces badge.

Hello,

We can make basic parachutist and Air Assault badges.  You will have to order through an email or call your in.  They are $2.00 each.

Thanks
Teresa Roberts
http://www.1800nametape.com
Spur Name Tapes
1-800-626-3827
text

I know this thread is older than some cadets, but when looking through it, I didn't post a picture of the products I got back from Spur Name Tapes.  They may seem a bit off in the picture, but I will admit they are identical to the badges I wore on my Army BDUs.



For all of you former military types who wish to wear matching military/CAP badges, I highly recommend calling these folks.

Excellent,  How much was shipping?

[JayT]

Are the badges suppose to be blue to blue, or white to white?

[jayleswo]

Are the badges suppose to be blue to blue, or white to white?

CAPM 39-1 (23 MAR 2005) para 6-7 (p. 105) says:

"When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia to
insignia not blue to blue. For more instructions see Chapters 2 and 4."

So, that would be "white to white"

[brasda91]

everything on the BDUs is white on blue (unless you're a 2d Lt or Major).

Is this your personal set-up on your uniforms or are you trying to say this is the requirement?

[Stonewall]

That's just how I'd like it to be.  When I was in NATCAP wing, before they got rid of wing patches and added the American flag, our uniforms were actually "uni-form".  White on blue everything.

Unfortunately, I'm in FLWG now where they require the wing patch, which looks terrible.  Plus the flag, I lost my love of uniformity.

Note:  Remember, when sewing (machine sewing that is) badges, there should be a 1/8" blue border around the badge; then, measure 1/2" between the white badges, not the blue border.

To answer the shipping cost question, I don't remember, but wasn't anything to be concerned about.  I don't remember paying too much for the entire order.

[Eclipse]

Note:  Remember, when sewing (machine sewing that is) badges, there should be a 1/8" blue border around the badge; then, measure 1/2" between the white badges, not the blue border.

I thought it was 1/2" blue-to-blue for the first badge above the nametape, and then white-to-white for the second one.

[jb512]

Note:  Remember, when sewing (machine sewing that is) badges, there should be a 1/8" blue border around the badge; then, measure 1/2" between the white badges, not the blue border.

I thought it was 1/2" blue-to-blue for the first badge above the nametape, and then white-to-white for the second one.

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

[Stonewall]

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

Yes, it'll be about 1/4" between blue borders of the badges.

[SarDragon]

[changed]

Y'all type too fast!

[jb512]

If I'm reading it right, the two badges will have a 1/4" space between them because of the 1/8" border with the 1/2" white to white measurement.  The nametape to bottom badge will have a gap because you're measuring from nametape to white.  Correct?

Yes, it'll be about 1/4" between blue borders of the badges.

Then the two gaps will be slightly off because of the nametape...  came out to 0.375" for nametape to white.