What is this ribbon? Is it a CAP ribbon?

[MacGruff]

I was asked by my squadron commander to chase down a bag of ribbons that have been sitting around for a long time and tell her which ones are CAP and what are they. I've traced all but one of the 30 or so ribbons and am stumped by one. I still do not have the ability to post images on line here, so if you are curious and want to see a front and back pic of this ribbon, please PM me.

It is mostly orange with two vertical dark blue stripes. It is cloth.

Thanks for any help you might be able to offer.

[Eclipse]

Without an image there's no way to identify this ribbon.

Post the pic to Imageshack and link it back here with the [img] tags.

FYI - one post per topic is plenty.

[jeders]

Does it look like this?

[UH60guy]

It is mostly orange with two vertical dark blue stripes. It is cloth.

Until you post an image, here is what I could come up with that kinda meets your description, allowing for color/description variations:
CAP National Commander's Unit Award

Coast Guard Presidential Unit Citation

Air Force Commendation Medal

Air Medal

Multi National Forces Observer

[Patterson]

It's a JROTC Ribbon.  I would post the picture, but my phone doesn't let me...

[Майор Хаткевич]

It's a JROTC Ribbon.  I would post the picture, but my phone doesn't let me...

Veterans of Foreign Wars Award

[MacGruff]

Thanks to the help given me by one of the members, I found out that it is a Kentucky National Guard Service Ribbon.

When I can put up pictures, I'll add it to this thread.

Thanks for trying to help me!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Thanks to the help given me by one of the members, I found out that it is a Kentucky National Guard Service Ribbon.

When I can put up pictures, I'll add it to this thread.

Thanks for trying to help me!

It's a JROTC Ribbon.  I would post the picture, but my phone doesn't let me...

Veterans of Foreign Wars Award

Kentucky National Guard Faithful Service Ribbon

Those two look almost identical.

[Jaison009]

That is what I thought it might be.

It's a JROTC Ribbon.  I would post the picture, but my phone doesn't let me...

Veterans of Foreign Wars Award

[jeders]

Interesting.

Wikipedia says that the Kentucky National Guard Faithful Service ribbon looks like this:


The Kentucky National Guard eHistory Museum Only has the Service ribbon, not the faithful service ribbon, which looks like this:


The KY NG Museum page says that, "Members formerly awarded the Thirty Year Ribbon are authorized to continue wearing the ribbon." So presumably what you have is a no longer authorized version of the ribbon. Nice find.

[4fhoward]

It could also be the Colorado National Guard Emergecy Services Ribbon.
http://www.usamilitarymedals.com/colorado-national-guard-state-emergency-service-ribbon-p-5830.html
http://www.usamm.com/colorado-national-guard-state-emergency-service-ribbon.html

[MSG Mac]

It's not uncommon for a ribbon to be used by several organizations under different names.

[Hawk200]

It could also be the Colorado National Guard Emergecy Services Ribbon.
http://www.usamilitarymedals.com/colorado-national-guard-state-emergency-service-ribbon-p-5830.html
http://www.usamm.com/colorado-national-guard-state-emergency-service-ribbon.html

Doubtful. I've been awarded that one, and it is obviously very yellow, not orange.

[MacGruff]

It could also be the Colorado National Guard Emergecy Services Ribbon.
http://www.usamilitarymedals.com/colorado-national-guard-state-emergency-service-ribbon-p-5830.html
http://www.usamm.com/colorado-national-guard-state-emergency-service-ribbon.html

I looked at those two links that you provided - than you, by the way - but my impression was that those were yellow and not orange.

The one that I have is orange and blue and while it's not in pristine condition,    it is not that dirty that a yellow would look orange.

[MacGruff]

I also have another challenge for those of you who are very knowledgeable about this. Another one of the ribbons I have is cloth, has three stripes, two narrower yellow stripes on the sides with a wider red stripe in the center. There is some discoloration in the very center of it, like there was some sort of device mounted there. The only ribbon I found that looks like it is the Hawaii National Guard Medal of Honor.

Could it possibly be? 

[Eclipse]

Between age, die lots, and poor manufacturing controls, orange can look gold, yellow, or anything in between.

Put them on a scanner or take a decent pic and show us what they look like.

[Critical AOA]

Between age, die lots, and poor manufacturing controls, orange can look gold, yellow, or anything in between.

Yep and couple that fact with the idea that a newer organization looking for ribbon designs might look at those of other organizations for inspiration.  Then there are only so many color & stripe combos that look decent.  So there are bound to be many very similar ribbons out there across the many organizations that use them.

So what you get is:

It's not uncommon for a ribbon to be used by several organizations under different names.

It is to be expected.

[Private Investigator]

I also have another challenge for those of you who are very knowledgeable about this. Another one of the ribbons I have is cloth, has three stripes, two narrower yellow stripes on the sides with a wider red stripe in the center. There is some discoloration in the very center of it, like there was some sort of device mounted there. The only ribbon I found that looks like it is the Hawaii National Guard Medal of Honor.

Could it possibly be?

The Hawaii Medal of Honor was created in 2005 and first awarded in 2006. It has been awarded 242 times since then.

Which leads me to ask; Can we wear National Guard ribbons? Some states had supplements to CAPM 39-1. 

[MSG Mac]

Only awards allowed to be worn on Active Duty Air Force uniforms are allowed. No State awards or organizational awards.

[MacGruff]

Between age, die lots, and poor manufacturing controls, orange can look gold, yellow, or anything in between.

Put them on a scanner or take a decent pic and show us what they look like.

I can take a decent pic, but I still am not allowed to upload them here...

Hopefully that will happen to me soon (maybe after I reach post #50?) and then I will be happy to post a pic.

[skymaster]

Only awards allowed to be worn on Active Duty Air Force uniforms are allowed. No State awards or organizational awards.

I do not believe that that statement is entirely correct. I know for a fact that National Headquarters made a specific exception circa 1994, at the strong urging of both Georgia's Adjutant General and Governor at the time, for those Georgia Wing personnel who participated in the Southwest Georgia Flood Relief missions that year to be awarded (and allowed to wear on a CAP uniform), the Georgia Department of Defense Humanitarian Service Ribbon. The ribbon looks like this:



And this was not just a ribbon worn by a few members at some out-of- the-way rural area squadron where the Ma Blue might not notice. The GAWG participation in the relief mission was central enough to the overall prosecution of the state's mission, and involved enough GAWG personnel at the time, that a good 1/4th of the active membership of the Wing at the time participated, including CAP's future National Legal Officer, COL Barry Herrin. If you see a photo of him in his service dress uniform, he still wears it. Now, if it was NOT authorised for wear, wouldn't anyone think that (of ALL people) that the National Legal Officer would know what the wear rules ultimately are. I am not saying that I recommend that all CAP members go out and put whatever they like on their uniform. I am saying, however, that NHQ has made an exception to that policy a couple of times in the past.

[Eclipse]

Between age, die lots, and poor manufacturing controls, orange can look gold, yellow, or anything in between.

Put them on a scanner or take a decent pic and show us what they look like.

I can take a decent pic, but I still am not allowed to upload them here...

Hopefully that will happen to me soon (maybe after I reach post #50?) and then I will be happy to post a pic.

Upload it to an imagehost such as Imageshack, use the [IMG] tags to link back to the pic.

[Eclipse]

Only awards allowed to be worn on Active Duty Air Force uniforms are allowed. No State awards or organizational awards.

I do not believe that that statement is entirely correct. I know for a fact that National Headquarters made a specific exception circa 1994, at the strong urging of both Georgia's Adjutant General and Governor at the time, for those Georgia Wing personnel who participated in the Southwest Georgia Flood Relief missions that year to be awarded (and allowed to wear on a CAP uniform), the Georgia Department of Defense Humanitarian Service Ribbon. The ribbon looks like this:



And this was not just a ribbon worn by a few members at some out-of- the-way rural area squadron where the Ma Blue might not notice. The GAWG participation in the relief mission was central enough to the overall prosecution of the state's mission, and involved enough GAWG personnel at the time, that a good 1/4th of the active membership of the Wing at the time participated, including CAP's future National Legal Officer, COL Barry Herrin. If you see a photo of him in his service dress uniform, he still wears it. Now, if it was NOT authorised for wear, wouldn't anyone think that (of ALL people) that the National Legal Officer would know what the wear rules ultimately are. I am not saying that I recommend that all CAP members go out and put whatever they like on their uniform. I am saying, however, that NHQ has made an exception to that policy a couple of times in the past.

Probably a wives tale, wouldn't be the first time.  Absent an approved 39-3 supplement, it's ain't authorized, no matter where the member is posted.

[Private Investigator]

Only awards allowed to be worn on Active Duty Air Force uniforms are allowed. No State awards or organizational awards.

I do not believe that that statement is entirely correct. I know for a fact that National Headquarters made a specific exception circa 1994, at the strong urging of both Georgia's Adjutant General and Governor at the time, for those Georgia Wing personnel who participated in the Southwest Georgia Flood Relief missions that year to be awarded (and allowed to wear on a CAP uniform), the Georgia Department of Defense Humanitarian Service Ribbon. The ribbon looks like this:



And this was not just a ribbon worn by a few members at some out-of- the-way rural area squadron where the Ma Blue might not notice. The GAWG participation in the relief mission was central enough to the overall prosecution of the state's mission, and involved enough GAWG personnel at the time, that a good 1/4th of the active membership of the Wing at the time participated, including CAP's future National Legal Officer, COL Barry Herrin. If you see a photo of him in his service dress uniform, he still wears it. Now, if it was NOT authorised for wear, wouldn't anyone think that (of ALL people) that the National Legal Officer would know what the wear rules ultimately are. I am not saying that I recommend that all CAP members go out and put whatever they like on their uniform. I am saying, however, that NHQ has made an exception to that policy a couple of times in the past.

Probably a wives tale, wouldn't be the first time.  Absent an approved 39-3 supplement, it's ain't authorized, no matter where the member is posted.

I concur.

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

[UH60guy]

I would suggest that if this is for a CAP squadron's supply of ribbons, you just open up CAPR 39-3 to page 32 and try to match everything up. If it doesn't match, toss it to the side because you're likely not supposed to be wearing it.

Many of what you have are probably JROTC if they're not in here, judging by your previous find.

[Hawk200]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

[Shuman 14]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

Because Eclipse said so... and that's the end of it!   

[Eclipse]

Because Eclipse said so... and that's the end of it!   

...about time somebody said it!

[Mitchell 1969]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

Because CAP isn't a state-level organization. But more importantly, because USAF doesn't permit it for their federal vs state level people. USAF's uniform, USAF's rules.

[flyboy53]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

Because CAP isn't a state-level organization. But more importantly, because USAF doesn't permit it for their federal vs state level people. USAF's uniform, USAF's rules.

Cite the reference. The real Air Force rule is that you can't wear National Guard ribbons while serving on active duty. We're not on active duty. This is actually a National Board rule because back in the day you could wear your National Guard ribbons on a CAP uniform. There was even a time when federal ribbons could not be worn.

Furthermore, if a wing gets the authority to wear a certain ribbon, that's between the Wing and Region commanders and NHQ. In my time in the Air Force, I have seen exceptions to policy about National Guard ribbons worn by Air Force Reserve members -- one in particular with the Ohio Air National Guard because of the mission the ribbon represented. I wouldn't be surprised if the same exception to policy existed in this organization because -- afterall we are civilian volunteers.

[lordmonar]

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform
provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force,
Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding
service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence.
See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.

So....yes while in the NG/SG you get to wear state ribbons.....but while we are not AD.....we are also NOT NG or SG....we are the Civil Air Patrol the USAF AUX so we go by our rules.

Which state we follow AD USAF rules for awards.

If in doubt you can always ask NHQ for clarification.

[PHall]

I have asked National HQ  (Suzie Parker) if you can wear National Guard ribbons on the Civil Air Patrol uniform.
The answer I got back was that only "Federal" ribbons could be worn. No "State" or SDF ribbons.
You can verify this with Ned Lee too, because he was told the same thing.