American Flag Patch. Creased or not?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Remember back in the 70's when the "big thing" was to have your fatigues custom embroidered - name, rank, badges, etc. actually sewn INTO the shirt, no backing material or tapes. The Cav Store was laughing all the way to the bank.

I remember back in in 2004 when that was Battalion policy.

[wacapgh]

I thought that had died with the "OG-107s" !

[AngelWings]

I've seen the Blue Angels wear their special ultramarine blue flightsuits with a huge(can't tell if it is printed, embroidered, or a patch) American flag creased right down the center. Creasing the flag shouldn't be an issue. I've never done it, simply because that it would go against how I was taught, but I never once thought it was a bad idea. Getting mad at someone who irons the flag is nothing short of rediculous. It is an allowed personal prefernce until CAPM-39-1 says it isn't allowed. But don't get me wrong, if your squadron doesn't do it, then you should do it because it would look out of uniform.

[Fubar]

It is an allowed personal prefernce until CAPM-39-1 says it isn't allowed.

Regulations don't spell out what you can't do, they spell out what you can do. If they had to write a regulation that listed everything you can't do, it would be several thousand pages long and probably still not complete.

Usually whenever I've seen something spelled out in a regulation expressly forbidding something, it's because the membership isn't sticking to the concept of the regulation telling them what they can do while performing mental gymnastics to justify their deviance from the regulation. Eventually the leadership gets tired of arguing and expressly forbids something via regulation. I assume that's why CAPM 39-1 has printed in bold in the very first section, "COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized."

[majdomke]

 :clap:

[lordmonar]

Fubar,

The concept of regulations is two fold.

They tell you what you MUST do.
They Tell you what you MUST NOT do.

They recommend things you should or should not do.

Everything else is up for grabs.

That is one problem of the "regs dogs".  If we are only allowed to do things specifically allowed by regulations.....then anything not in the regulation must be forbidden.

Where is the regulaiton on going to the bathroom?  Where is the regulation on undershorts?   Where is the regulation on blowing your nose?

If regulations were the be all, end all of how we do things.....there would be no need for leaders.

Leaders are there to make the call to fill in the gaps between the Must Do, the Don't Do and Should Do in the regulations.

As for crease or no crease.....lacking any other guidance then as Littleguy said it is a personal preference.  If you disagree.....all you have to do is write a local supplement to 39-1 that says "at the Homer J. Simpson Comp Squadron we will/will not crease our flag patches".

[/rant]

[Fubar]

Where is the regulaiton on going to the bathroom?  Where is the regulation on undershorts?   Where is the regulation on blowing your nose?

To my knowledge, they haven't been written, but we do have a regulation on uniform wear. So I follow it to the best of my ability. If I come across something not covered by a regulation, I look to my leaders to provide direction.

Well, except for when it comes to going to the bathroom. I more or less have the direction thing down on my own.

[SII-117]

Most leaders are helpful, but only to a certain extent. Toilets are one thing like that.

[ELMO]

I'm the Cadet Commander of squadron 22 at Travis AFB, CA and I set high standards for my cadets but ironing the uniform is a bare minimum. I hate seeing cadets and senior members taking advantage of the great responsibility and privilege it is for Civil Air Patrol to wear the uniform and you should at least make it presentable! I am totally against not ironing the uniform! People see us as the military because they don't know the difference. We represent not only Civil Air Patrol but the military and the United States as a whole! So when you wear the uniform it doesn't matter if you wear the BDUs or the Blues, you make it as presentable as possible! We don't go in battle so saying that it is a battle dress uniform as an excuse to not iron it at all is just plain pathetic and shows arrogance and lack of respect for the uniform. Wear the uniform with pride and respect.

I'm not singling out anyone. I'm just giving my opinion so dont get angry at me when you get your feelings hurt. I'm just saying the true facts.

[SII-117]

As a Cadet Stan/Eval, I am forced to quote CAPM 39-1-
A Reverse American Flag should be worn on the right shoulder.
In all of the images in 39-1, Not A Single One is Ironed!
Also being a 1stSgt, I am asked this question a lot.
This should settle it.

[lordmonar]

As a Cadet Stan/Eval, I am forced to quote CAPM 39-1-
A Reverse American Flag should be worn on the right shoulder.
In all of the images in 39-1, Not A Single One is Ironed!
Also being a 1stSgt, I am asked this question a lot.
This should settle it.

And if it is ironed?  What then?

Not wanting to beat you up or anything....but because I said so is not.....or I don't see it in the picture does not mean that is what the standard is.

Bottom line....Ironed or not....there is no standard from 39-1.....so if someone wants to make it standard all they have to do is make a supplement and get the word out to their subordinate.

[Eclipse]

And be aware that a supplement only has weight at or below the level it is approved, so even if your commander approved it, you'll
see others outside your unit doing something different and you have no standing to make an issue of it.

Further, 39-1's visuals are nearly useless as a guide, considering that they still show wing patches on blues (some not even sewn on),
only one grade insignia on cadet collars, and the ribbon racks look like they were put together by someone unfamiliar with the concept
of "order of precedence", among other issues.

In all of the images in 39-1, Not A Single One is Ironed!

Where are you looking?  Because in the current rev of 39-1, there isn't a single image of the flag patch on the right shoulder.
In at least one of the 4 BDU photos, however, the left sleeve is clearly pressed all the way up through the wing patch.

[Major Lord]

Unless they sneaked a new 39-1 by, the word "flag" does not appear in the regulation. The wear of the flag on the BDU was mandated by a policy letter, and it has not been approved by the Air Force for wear on the Air Force style uniform. Creased or not.....

Major Lord

[SarDragon]

Unless they sneaked a new 39-1 by, the word "flag" does not appear in the regulation. The wear of the flag on the BDU was mandated by a policy letter, and it has not been approved by the Air Force for wear on the Air Force style uniform. Creased or not.....

Major Lord

That is absolute BS, and you know it! It appears several times, in items related to flight suits/jackets, and color/honor guard.

As for the artwork in the reg, some of those graphics are over 40 years olde, so using them as an absolute reference is not as a good idea.

[Major Lord]

You are absolutely right, the word "Flag" does appear in the 39-1. I goofed in the pdf word search. Maybe I missed that part about wearing the flag on the Air Force style uniform too........or maybe not.

Major Lord

[SII-117]

Hmm. I seemed to have missed something.
Well. My mistake.

[CJB]

Just joined and I came here to find the answer.  Looks like there really isn't one.

You can cite that the BDU is a "utility" uniform, but that doesn't mean we don't get them gussied up for inspections.  The permanent press ABU with suede boots was introduced to be more practical.  Before the ABU, Airmen spent hours starching and pressing the BDU and polishing boots, regardless of the fact that the BDU was originally intended to be a wash and wear uniform.  I knew guys that had the crease stitched into their SNCO stripes.  The same goes for blues; you wanted a razor sharp crease right through the chevrons.  Now that I'm wearing patches that go right where a crease should be, I can only assume that the BDU should be pressed as usual.

Also, when the ABU was introduced, it was directed that an iron should never touch the new uniform.  So, if you see someone with creased chevrons, you know they're breaking the rule.  That policy is also unclear.

Personally, I like a uniform that portrays the wearer.  You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled sleeves and dull boots was in need of motivation.

[davidsinn]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

[NCRblues]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Bingo

[AngelWings]

You could always tell an Airman with wrinkled ironed sleeves and dull mirrored boots was in need of motivation. didn't have enough real work to do.

That's more like reality.

Absolute BS. Do not insult my fellow brothers and sisters, who for when they had the BDU's, kept them well ironed and boots shined nicely. I guess you must be ignorant to the fact some people give to shi'as about how they appear, for pride reasons. If the American flag touches it, except for uniforms worn during combat, it should squared away. It is an insult to put any representation of America on something that looks like crap.