CAP Decorations: DSM, ESA, MSA, etc.

[DBlair]

Regarding the CAP decorations of Distinguished Service Medal, Exceptional Service Award, and to a certain extent the Meritorious Service Award, I was wondering if anyone knew of actual situations where these were awarded beyond merely end-of-tour type decorations for certain echelon commanders/staff officers.

In a discussion recently, some local members noted that it seems to be the only people who get these decorations are members who have served in certain roles, and not that they have actually done anything specific or notable beyond just having such a position. Examples given were Wing, Region, National Commanders, National CAC Chairman, and certain other positions.

I keep hearing the "You have to be the [insert position title] to get that award" comments being made when people ask about certain decorations and so I figured I would ask for your opinions.

So, I'm curious... do you feel these are end-of-tour type decorations tied to certain higher positions, or are they ever actually awarded for certain deeds/service and thus actually attainable through member efforts, etc?

It seems that in theory per the regulation, they are awarded for deeds/service, but it seems difficult to cite examples of recipients other than those in certain staff roles. Any thoughts?

[SJFedor]

I've heard of MSA's awarded back when I was in TN for certain people who went above and beyond during certain events/missions, like those who played key roles in TN during katrina when they had evacuees pouring in and supplies that had to go out.

[lordmonar]

Well most of those decorations are tied to specfic leves of the organisation.

So...yes you would have to be at the region or national level to get them.

For a specific acheivement (as opposed to service) it would still have to be something with an impact at the level of the decoration.

[RiverAux]

I've often wondered why we even bother having some of those higher level decorations in the first place given the requirements.  Sure, you don't HAVE to be a wing or region commander or serve on national staff to get them, but in general practice that is the way it is for some of them.  If an award isn't really achievable and only affects a very tiny fraction of the membership we probably shouldn't even have it.

They most definetely should not be given as routine "end of tour" awards.  Only a handful of those eligible should be getting them. 

Now, I am talking about these "administrative" awards.  I'm just fine with having stringent criteria and very few awardees for something like the Silver Medal of Valor. 

[lordmonar]

Look at the USAF's medals.

The tops 4  (not counting the CMH, AFCross and SStar) or so are all for generals work HQ or DOD level jobs.

Just because your average C/AB has no hope of getting one is not a reason to eliminate decorations.

[RiverAux]

So, they need to dump those AF awards too. 

[arajca]

I have received an MSA for work at the unit level. Following an unplanned change of command, I stayed active and worked hard to keep the administrative burden light for the new commander until we had more seniors trained enough to help. He initially put me in for a CC, but after reading the citation, the group commander rejected it and told him to upgrade it to the MSA.

[lordmonar]

So, they need to dump those AF awards too.

So Generals can't get awards?

Or do they just get the same MSM that a Major or MSgt gets?

One could argue then we should not have decorations at all.

'Tis a slipper slope we stand upon.

[RiverAux]

They've got the stars. 

But, like I said, if they're going to have them, they should not be routine end-of-tour awards.  If only a few of those eligible earn them, I suppose thats okay, even if not really needed. 

[bosshawk]

When I was the CAWG CDO, I put several people in for MSA and they received them, so that was not an end of tour award.  Those awards were for very specific, high visibility acts by the individuals involved.

End of tour: I was awarded a ESA for my work as the CDO and that was at Wing level.  It has now been about 10 months since it was awarded and I have yet to receive it.  I know where it is sitting, but I am not going into that in this forum.

[flyboy53]

Generally, the bigger the program/project managed successfully or the higher the level of responsibility, the higher the award. So, don't expect DSMs awarded below wing level. Instead, expect to see lots of Commander's Commendations awarded at wing level and Achievement Awards at group or below. At least that's how it's expected to work, but I've seen a lot of politics, too.

In the Air Force the Achievment Medal is the average award presented to airmen and junior officers for end-of-tour or outstanding achievement. Commendation Medals come next as the rank or level of responsibility climb and then MSMs are generally for senior NCOs and field grade officers. It's an insult to be given a Commendation Medal when your a lieutenant colonel or colonel, and although I've seen MSMs awarded to senior airmen, the practice is very rare and generally involves something of great responsibility. I knew of four E-4 senior airmen that got MSMs once. It raised a real furror until word got out what they had done. They were all with the USAF Security Service or later Electronic Security Command and their duties had command-level impact. I also knew a colonel who got an AFCM once in the Alaskan Air Command, it was a major sign that his career was over.

One thing I wish NHQ would consider is having Vanguard do up regular sized medals for presentation. The awards would mean a little more than just another ribbon...even though the likelyhood of that medal being worn on a uniform...other than at presentation time is pretty slim.

But that's how DSMs and higher awards are done now, so why not the lower "decorations."

[MSgt Van]

Generally, the bigger the program/project managed successfully or the higher the level of responsibility, the higher the award.

That's it, exactly (active duty anyway). Bigger impact, bigger metal. There was the rule of thumb as already mentioned "Jr NCOs don't get MSM's." but that didn't hold true if the justification was there. 

[lordmonar]

Let's say you do a 2 year tour as a regional CP guy and do a crappy job....not bad enough to get fired....just crappy.  What do you do to show the world he was crappy?

Let's say you do a 2 year tour as a regional CP guy and do an okay job.  You do your job, meet all your suspenses and meet your commander's objectives...what do you do to show the world he did his job?

Now let's say you do a 2 year tour as regional CP guy and you exceed all your objectives, create new programs, train up hundreds and thousands of CP people and save the world as we know  it?

There is nothing wrong with getting an "end of tour" medal for "just" doing your job.  We can't pay you more, we can' promote you.  We can't give you extra time off.  The only way to give a visible kudos is to award them a Decoration.

If they do a super great  job you give them the next higher one up...if they do a so so job they get the next lower one down.

If the screw everthing up they get nothing.

This is exactly how they do business on AD.   You see a MSgt getting a AFCM at the end of tour you know that he screwed up somehow...if he gets nothing you know he really screwed up.

YMMV

[ColonelJack]

One thing I wish NHQ would consider is having Vanguard do up regular sized medals for presentation. The awards would mean a little more than just another ribbon...even though the likelyhood of that medal being worn on a uniform...other than at presentation time is pretty slim.

But that's how DSMs and higher awards are done now, so why not the lower "decorations."

Let me add a resounding "Hear Hear!" to your comment.  I would be willing to wager a tidy sum that the members who get those decorations would even spring for purchasing the full-size medal of their decoration.  I know I would ... seven CCs and one MSA.

I think the decorations from Achievement Award on up should have full-size medals available if the member wishes to purchase one. 

Jack

[ZigZag911]

I've seen numerous occasions dating back to the 70s when squadron members (senior and cadet) have received MSAs and even the occasional ESA for service to the wing (individual project or event, not a wing staff position)

[RiverAux]

Let's say you do a 2 year tour as a regional CP guy and do a crappy job....not bad enough to get fired....just crappy.  What do you do to show the world he was crappy?

Let's say you do a 2 year tour as a regional CP guy and do an okay job.  You do your job, meet all your suspenses and meet your commander's objectives...what do you do to show the world he did his job?

Now let's say you do a 2 year tour as regional CP guy and you exceed all your objectives, create new programs, train up hundreds and thousands of CP people and save the world as we know  it?

There is nothing wrong with getting an "end of tour" medal for "just" doing your job.  We can't pay you more, we can' promote you.  We can't give you extra time off.  The only way to give a visible kudos is to award them a Decoration.

If they do a super great  job you give them the next higher one up...if they do a so so job they get the next lower one down.

If the screw everthing up they get nothing.

This is exactly how they do business on AD.   You see a MSgt getting a AFCM at the end of tour you know that he screwed up somehow...if he gets nothing you know he really screwed up.

YMMV

That really says more about the perversion of an awards system than anything we should really want to emulate.  The guy that did an outstanding job at region should get an award.  The guy that just got all the paperwork done but nothing extra and the guy that screwed up should get nothing.  They got the prestige of being on region staff for 2 years and doing nothing worth recognizing. 

[lordmonar]

Yes...but it works.

Don't knock a tool that works...even if it upsets your sensibilities.

[HGjunkie]

This is exactly how they do business on AD.   You see a MSgt getting a AFCM at the end of tour you know that he screwed up somehow...if he gets nothing you know he really screwed up.

YMMV

>Air Force Commendation Medal
>screwed up
>wtf am I reading.jpg

[davedove]

Really though, I have never been a fan of end of tour awards just for doing your job, but I would actually be more in favor of them for CAP for one main reason:  we don't get paid to just do our jobs.  Awards are the only recognition we get.

[RiverAux]

we don't get paid to just do our jobs.  Awards are the only recognition we get.

Ah, but you forget, jobs are often tied to the CAP PD program which is tied to the rank you can earn in CAP.  Granted, if you're working at Regional or National level you probably already maxed out the PD program, but for everyone else...