Transitioning while receiving Flight Following

[flyguy06]

If I am receiving Flight Following and am talking to Approach Control and I have to transistion through a Class D airspace, do I need to contact the Class D's tower or do I stay with Appraoch control? 

[flyguy06]

 

[Brad]

The way I understand it, unless Approach tells you to contact Tower, you stay with Approach. Otherwise you may switch over, they may issue an instruction, as such you miss it, and they assume you have comm failure or whatnot. Now as far as the airspace transition goes, if you're approaching the Tower airspace, which usually extends out to only 5 NM, you execute a hold outside the airspace until Tower grants you clearance to transition. So one approach, no pun intended, would be to tell Approach you're holding outside the Class D Airspace and request permission to contact Tower for transition clearance. Odds are though, if it is a Class D Airspace, you're already on with the Approach controller who's in contact with that Tower, and your message may just get relaye.

YMMV, but again, don't change frequencies unless told to.

[DKruse]

If I'm on flight following, I'll ask approach control if I have clearance to transition a Class D area.  Most of the time, the Minneapolis Approach controllers (where I do most of my flying) will tell me ahead of time that I already have the clearance to transition.  If I don't hear that, I'll ask if I have clearance.  Either way, the approach controller will try to call the tower at the Class D airport on the phone and get the clearance.  I've never had to change frequencies and contact the tower to get clearance to transition when I'm on with approach.

As mentioned before, YMMV.

[Frenchie]

If I am receiving Flight Following and am talking to Approach Control and I have to transistion through a Class D airspace, do I need to contact the Class D's tower or do I stay with Appraoch control? 

No, you don't.

As far as what your responsibilities are, you can find the guidance in 91.129 regarding class D:

(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

Since you have established two-way radio communications with approach, you are fulfilling your requirements per 91.129.  You should note that 91.129 says nothing about calling the tower.  It specifies "the ATC facility ... providing air traffic services".  The approach control certainly qualifies.

This comes directly out of the latest version of FAA order 7110.65, which is the bible for ATC:

2-1-14. COORDINATE USE OF AIRSPACE

a. Ensure that the necessary coordination has been accomplished before you allow an aircraft under your control to enter another controller's area of jurisdiction.

b. Before you issue control instructions directly or relay through another source to an aircraft which is within another controller's area of jurisdiction that will change that aircraft's heading, route, speed, or altitude, ensure that coordination has been accomplished with each of the controllers listed below whose area of jurisdiction is affected by those instructions unless otherwise specified by a letter of agreement or a facility directive:

1. The controller within whose area of jurisdiction the control instructions will be issued.

2. The controller receiving the transfer of control.

3. Any intervening controller(s) through whose area of jurisdiction the aircraft will pass.

c. If you issue control instructions to an aircraft through a source other than another controller (e.g., ARINC, AFSS/FSS, another pilot) ensure that the necessary coordination has been accomplished with any controllers listed in subparas b1, 2, and 3, whose area of jurisdiction is affected by those instructions unless otherwise specified by a letter of agreement or a facility directive.

[flyguy06]

Thanks. I got yelled at the other day by a Class D tower controller. I was doing a practice VOR approach and was being vectored by ATlanta Approach. He told me when to switch to Tower and I did. Tower yelled at me for getting too close to contatc him. I didn;t aruge with him. I just said "roger". But really, I contatced him when Approach told me too. How is that my fault?

[Frenchie]

Thanks. I got yelled at the other day by a Class D tower controller. I was doing a practice VOR approach and was being vectored by ATlanta Approach. He told me when to switch to Tower and I did. Tower yelled at me for getting too close to contatc him. I didn;t aruge with him. I just said "roger". But really, I contatced him when Approach told me too. How is that my fault?

It wasn't your fault.  Controllers talk to each other via landlines.  The approach controller should have advised the tower controller of what was going on, or he should have given you the frequency change earlier.   You were right not to argue with him.  He was just venting his frustrations out on you because he knew he couldn't speak to the approach controller that way.

[bosshawk]

The top of most Class D airspace is 2500 ft AGL.  If you are above that altitude, you really don't have to worry about transition: you are out of the Class D airspace.  If you are close to the 2500 ft, it might be courteous to give the tower a call so that they know who you are, where you are and where you are going.  Look at your sectional: it gives the top of the Class D airspace, but it usually is as I described above.

[flyguy06]

The top of most Class D airspace is 2500 ft AGL.  If you are above that altitude, you really don't have to worry about transition: you are out of the Class D airspace.  If you are close to the 2500 ft, it might be courteous to give the tower a call so that they know who you are, where you are and where you are going.  Look at your sectional: it gives the top of the Class D airspace, but it usually is as I described above.

2500ft AGL. Atlanta is at 1000'ft elevation, we were at 3500' MSL, so we would have gone right through Class D. (on the sectional, it has the class D top in parenthesis)I have flown this route before but usually I am a lot higher and dont worry about it, but this particular time I chose not to go up high due to a cloud layer.

[Brad]

Yea, ATL's Class D is topped at 3,500'. Besides, like Frenchie said, controllers contact each other to coordinate things such as Handoffs and runways in use. Not only that, Tower would see the Approach handler ID on your datatag, so he/she would know that Approach is handling things. Bear in mind that ATL is actually a Class B airspace, which technically means there is no Class D airspace unless the TRACON is down for some reason or another. You'd just be inside the Local Controller airspace up to 5 NM out and up to 3,500'.

As a side-note, I work ZTL myself on VATSIM, and if those procedures are any representation of real world practices, I honestly don't see why you were handed off like that in the first place. Example: I'll have a VFR flight coming out of ATL. "CAPFLIGHT328, Atlanta Tower, you are cleared to depart the Class B airspace to the south, maintain VFR at or below 3,500, squawk 0101."  After he gets going, I'd just issue, "CAPFLIGHT328, Atlanta Tower, you are leaving my airspace, contact Approach 127.90, good day!" Approach would pick him up and since I already gave him clearance to depart the airspace, they wouldn't bother him unless he had Flight Following. And arrivals would just work in reverse; VFR pops up on the scope, Approach would clear him to transition/operate within the Class B airspace. Once he reached my airspace, if he was arriving at ATL, Approach would hand him off to me and I would give him pattern entry instructions. If they are just transitioning, I don't even hear from them because I know Approach has it, plus I maintain communications with Approach. So I really don't see what his beef was.

[flyguy06]

Thanks Brad, but I wasnt going to or leaving Hartsfield. I was just saying the ATL area because most people on this board dont know FTY or PDK or MGE. I was departing Dobbins ARB(MGE) going to Athens(AHN) and had to go over PDK  I got flight following from Atlanta Approach.

In the other scenario I mentioned I was doing a VOR approach into FTY Rwy 26.

You dont practice approaches into KATL. or do any fly overs. Its a very busy Class B airport and they wont let a VFR pilot play around over there

[Frenchie]

You dont practice approaches into KATL. or do any fly overs. Its a very busy Class B airport and they wont let a VFR pilot play around over there

Generally this is the rule, but there are exceptions.  Depending on what flow the major airport is in, they may or may not let you traverse certain areas of the class B VFR.  Many of them will let you transition directly over the top of the airport in certain circumstances if you are traveling perpendicular to the arrivals and departures.  I have done this over DFW and over MCO.  ATL is busier than both of those airports, so I don't know how much latitude they will give you, but it never hurts to ask.

[flyguy06]

You are correct. At certain times of the evening you can cross over KATL at a certain altitude. I have done it a few times, but not very often.