Flight Computer

[davidsinn]

Today I was given my late grandfather's MB-9 flight computer which is a Navy/Air Force issue circular slide rule. In the intro in the manual it states that it incorporates many features of the D-4, E-11, E-6B,  AN-5834-1, -1A, -1B and MB-4. It appears to be a complete set with manual, computer and case. What can you guys tell me about it? Since I wish to work my way up to MO would it be a useful skill to learn to use this thing? Should I get an E-6B as well? I'll try and post pics later.

[BlueLakes1]

Let me have a look at it next time I see you, and I'll tell you what I think.

[davidsinn]

Yes Sir  I'll be at Bloomington in the late winter for the SAREX.

[Frenchie]

The front side of the MB-9 is nearly or perhaps even exactly identical to an E6-B.  The wind side is a bit different and I don't remember exactly how.  It might be a bit fun for you to play around with if you're interested in the nastalgic aspects of it, but it would be next to worthless in real value as a MS/MO.  Your time would be much better spent learning how to master the GPS, the radios, and/or the DF.

[davidsinn]

I understand what you are saying but what happens if you lose your gps? How do you navigate home?

[Frenchie]

Many pilots (including myself) carry a handheld GPS for backup.  You also have VOR, ADF, or you can call up ATC and get vectors.  You can also navigate simply by pilotage using nothing more than a sectional and a plotter, and taking an educated guess at your wind drift.

I would have to be in bad shape equipment wise to ever have to rely on an E6-B, and if that were the case, I'd probably be looking for the nearest airport to land.  An E6-B was the cat's meow back in the days when all you had was a whiskey compass, a map, and a watch, but they don't have much practical use anymore.  If you have aspirations of getting your pilot certificate, then you will have to learn to use one.

As far as CAP goes, a MS/MO who knows how to enter a flight plan on the GPS is far more valuable than one who knows how to use an E6-B.

[sparks]

You bring up a very important problem. Pilots who rely too heavily on the GPS to get them home will be disappointed someday. I've had units fail and had to resort to pilotage to continue the flight. In one case the database was incomplete the second was a problem with the mounting tray or wiring, never got a straight answer on that one.

Moral of the story is to use an appropriate chart and follow along even when using a GPS, better safe than sorry plus it will keep you from getting bored on long cross country flights.

[SJFedor]

Yeah, I don't even use an E-6B anymore. I have the electronic deal which makes life a lot easier.

And, even though most of my flights (even IFR) are GPS direct, I make sure that, every now and then, I turn all the toys off and just use my compass, stopwatch, and sectional to go from A to B.

And though this is a bit of a sidetrack, I make my MO trainees usually do the same. We'll turn off the toys and they'll have to use a map to help me navigate from A to B. I also make sure that, when we're up in cruise flight, the non-pilot MO trainees take the controls and become somewhat familiar w/ actually flying  an aircraft. Having a guy who can hold the plane straight and level while I pull up an approach plate is a real helper.

Plus, I worry about some of the young non-pilot MO's flying with the really old MPs we have. I always go over how to change the power settings, important numbers (airspeeds, power settings, etc), and a few memory items. It's absolutely not required in the SQTR or MART, but I believe it makes them better trained, more effective crewmembers.

[Al Sayre]

I highly recommend that non-pilot MO's take a "Pinch Hitter" course if they can...

[davidsinn]

"Pinch Hitter" meaning having the knowledge to at least crash at the air field, instead of God knows where? I had already decided that when my friend gets his certificate current again I was going to have him teach me some basics.

[Al Sayre]

"Pinch Hitter" meaning having the knowledge to at least crash at the air field, instead of God knows where?

Yep, why make it tough on the GT's...

[SJFedor]

I highly recommend that non-pilot MO's take a "Pinch Hitter" course if they can...

I'm a very firm believer in that. In fact, I honestly think it should be an Advanced Task requirement.

[afgeo4]

So you guys want MOs to be shown how to crash? How about showing them how to land?

[Hoser]

Electronic E6Bs will fail, GPS units  can and do fail, glass technology can and does fail. The E6B and sectional will never fail and you don't need extra batteries

[SJFedor]

Electronic E6Bs will fail, GPS units  can and do fail, glass technology can and does fail. The E6B and sectional will never fail and you don't need extra batteries

But what are the odds of everything listed failing, all at the same time? Rather remote. Not saying it's not a skill that should be refreshed and remembered, but when I'm doing a long flight from A to B, I'd much rather build the flight plan, hit the [NAV] button on the a/p, and be done with it. I'll keep an eye on where I am and how I'm progressing, but I'm not going to whip out my E6B every 20 min to make sure that the wind correction on the PFD is right.

So you guys want MOs to be shown how to crash? How about showing them how to land?

Well, that's a really tricky part there. We cannot do primary flight instruction for SMs, per 60-1. Showing someone how to land with a CFI (cuz those are the ONLY ones that should be doing it) would be considered said instruction. And, if it's not being done with a CFI, it's violating the 60-1 rule where you're not allowed to let unqualified/unrated personnel operate the controls during critical phases of flight.

Me? I take them up a few thousand feet, and have them (in the 172) practice holding an approx 500fpm descent rate at 65kts, explaining pitch = airspeed, power = attitude, and a few other crucial things that have to do with landing. I'll also discuss the picture while I'm landing the aircraft, i.e. what sight picture you're looking for, assistance in glidepath guidance (VASI, PAPI, etc) And, I tell them if they ever find themselves in this situation, remember to always, always, ALWAYS fly the plane first. Don't get too wrapped up in the GPS cuz you can't remember where the NRST function is, etc. Get on 121.5 or an approach/tower or even unicom frequency, and start calling for help.