Grog

[Kayll'b]

Hey, I am Mr vice for our Squadron's dining out. what the should I put in the grog? 

[Eclipse]

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3837.0

[Spam]

Kayll'b, please forgive me for going slightly off topic:

For members of Georgia Wing reading this and getting any ideas, a reminder that the Commander has disallowed grog bowls at all GA Wing events. If y'all have questions, please address them through channels.

Thanks
Spam

[Holding Pattern]

The grog was literally my worst experience in CAP as a cadet. There is no reason to subject a cadet to this ever.

[N6RVT]

Hey, I am Mr vice for our Squadron's dining out. what the should I put in the grog? 

Broken dreams and empty promises.

[Huey Driver]

The grog was literally my worst experience in CAP as a cadet. There is no reason to subject a cadet to this ever.

Conversely, the grog resembles some of my most fun and memorable times a cadet. But did it serve a legitimate purpose? No, and it certainly falls within the realm of hazing. There just isn't a place for it within CAP's modern standards of practice.

[NIN]

"Two fingers from the bowl of social grace"

[TheSkyHornet]

Here we go again...

[Paul Creed III]

Grogs are prohibited in my AOR. Pure hazing, plain and simple.

[jeders]

Hey, I am Mr vice for our Squadron's dining out. what the should I put in the grog? 

Grog's can be an excellent, fun, and camaraderie building part of a social event or they can make it so that no one wants to visit the next social event. When done right, a grog is enjoyed by everyone and absolutely not in any way even remotely close to hazing; the key is doing it right.

The last time we did one we used:

• The sweat from a cadets blues uniform (purple powerade)
• Blood collected from an obstacle course (Dr. Pepper)
• Sand from cadets' boots after a 20 mile ruck march (cane sugar)

All of this was placed in a CLEAN stainless steel bowl which was itself placed inside of a CLEAN (as in unused) toilet.

Some of the cadets were a little apprehensive at first, but by the end of the night everyone wanted to get sent to the grog bowl because it tasted so good. In fact, as the President of the Mess, I waved my own immunity to the grog and was the last person to visit it that night.

[Ned]

It is my hope that no senior would permit any sort of noxious grog as a CPP issue, but I suppose a "simulated noxious grog"  (where Mr. Vice and minions appear to make a horrible drink, but through various sleights of hand the offending ingredients are not actually added to the punch) is not a violation per se.

But I find the whole notion of "forced drinking" to be distasteful, and as others have pointed out it is rooted firmly in an alcoholic tradition that is wholly inappropriate for cadets.  So although we do not have a specific rule that prohibits "grog" ceremonies, I would personally discourage it.

I have added eliminating grog to the "next time we revise the 60-1" file for consideration.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

[Paul Creed III]

It is my hope that no senior would permit any sort of noxious grog as a CPP issue, but I suppose a "simulated noxious grog"  (where Mr. Vice and minions appear to make a horrible drink, but through various sleights of hand the offending ingredients are not actually added to the punch) is not a violation per se.

But I find the whole notion of "forced drinking" to be distasteful, and as others have pointed out it is rooted firmly in an alcoholic tradition that is wholly inappropriate for cadets.  So although we do not have a specific rule that prohibits "grog" ceremonies, I would personally discourage it.

I have added eliminating grog to the "next time we revise the 60-1" file for consideration.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

Well said, Col Lee.

[BHeck73]

The last time i encountered it (2 years ago at an encampment of not my own wing) it was a bunch of fruit juice, jello, soda, and salt. As the only SM sent to the grog i can attest it wasn't bad. Done this way I think its fine.

But yes it can come close to hazing if not properly managed, and sour future members.

[Eclipse]

It took me a single 5-second Google search to find CAP cadets and leaders in uniform drinking from
a toilet bowl.

Do with that what you will in these hyper-sensitive times.

[Color Guard Rifleman]

It took me a single 5-second Google search to find CAP cadets and leaders in uniform drinking from
a toilet bowl.

Do with that what you will in these hyper-sensitive times.

No there isn't. I just searched every possible phrase that can relate to such and there is nothing

[Luis R. Ramos]

It took me a little longer than it took Eclipse, about three searches but little less than a minute.

"Civil Air Patrol and toilet bowl" then limit it to images gave me this:

http://omahacomposite.nebraskacivilairpatrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/017.jpg

And there are others. Disgusting.

[chuckmilam]

Such a visceral reaction to ginger ale.  Sheesh.  I mean, I know it's not everyone's favorite, but it's not as disgusting as say, Tab Cola.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Its not the drink, its the container!

[Eclipse]

And if it was Ginger Ale, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[PHall]

Its not the drink, its the container!

Well then you would have really not approved of what my Air Force unit used at our "Combat" Dining In's (Combat = Flight Suits/ABU's).
A toilet and a urinal. CE says they are both brand new right out of the box. The medics said they were clean.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Are you sure they were not playing you?

[lowapproach]

But I find the whole notion of "forced drinking" to be distasteful, and as others have pointed out it is rooted firmly in an alcoholic tradition that is wholly inappropriate for cadets.  So although we do not have a specific rule that prohibits "grog" ceremonies, I would personally discourage it.

Honestly, the rest of the ceremonies in the dining out, including the "toasts" for our Commander in Chief, various Air Force and CAP leaders, and fallen comrades, can be said to be "forced drinking" or  "rooted firmly in an alcoholic tradition". I don't see why we need to strip, dissect and destroy yet another CAP tradition by enacting CAP's version of the 18th amendment (prohibition). 

Let's just add the entire Dining in/out experience as a forbidden activity in 60-1 too, and then we can revisit the "why is recruiting and retention suffering" at a future date...
:clap:

[Eclipse]

But I find the whole notion of "forced drinking" to be distasteful, and as others have pointed out it is rooted firmly in an alcoholic tradition that is wholly inappropriate for cadets.  So although we do not have a specific rule that prohibits "grog" ceremonies, I would personally discourage it.

Honestly, the rest of the ceremonies in the dining out, including the "toasts" for our Commander in Chief, various Air Force and CAP leaders, and fallen comrades, can be said to be "forced drinking" or  "rooted firmly in an alcoholic tradition". I don't see why we need to strip, dissect and destroy yet another CAP tradition by enacting CAP's version of the 18th amendment (prohibition). 

Let's just add the entire Dining in/out experience as a forbidden activity in 60-1 too, and then we can revisit the "why is recruiting and retention suffering" at a future date...
:clap:

A: This is by no means a "CAP Tradition".  It's done randomly by a few units, usually ones on
military facilities or who have a high percentage of members who are current or former, but the
for the vast majority of units, they haven't even heard of it, nor would they ever consider it.

Worse though, in many cases it's done poorly, but members who know "of" the tradition, but not how to do it properly.

B: If you actually believe prohibiting the Grog would have any impact whatsoever on "recruiting or retention", then you do not have an
understanding of the challenges facing CAP in that regard.

[Pace]

If you're gonna do one, you have to have at least 2 baby ruth bars floating in there. Just sayin'...

[PHall]

You know, I've never ever seen stuff like Baby Ruth Bars in "real" grog that was served at a "real" military Dining In/Out.
We always had alcoholic and non-alcoholic grog and neither was disagreeable in taste or appearance.
Don't know where the notion that grog had to be nasty came from. I know it's not in the Air Force tradition.

[SarDragon]

As Moderator I must aver, I thoroughly examined our thread, and it's not only merely locked, it's really most sincerely locked.