Unit Transfer as Squadron Staff

[Callsign._Hyena]

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to move by July of 2024. As of posting this it is December of 2023. (Incase someone finds this thread in like 10 years...lol.)

For the record, I already know where I'm going to move, and I've discussed this with my current unit commander as well as our current Cadet Commander, Cadet Deputy Commander, and a few CAP friends. I do plan on sending a formal email, as I only mentioned it in conversation once or twice. As the area is in a different wing and region and I wish to stay in CAP, I am going to transfer squadrons. I am aware of 2 squadrons in the new area that I am looking to transfer to. I've also read 39-2.

One, I'm currently the Safety Officer at my squadron. This may pose an issue as I still plan on being Safety or some other staff position at my current unit before transferring. Is there anything else I need to do because of that? Will someone fill the position after I transfer out?

I am aware that I ideally have to tell my current unit commander and the unit Commanders of both squadrons I'm looking at that I am planning on transferring. But who do I CC in the emails to the new units? Do I CC the unit commander as well as our Cadet Commander + Cadet Deputy Commander? When is the best time to tell the unit commanders? Should I have that done as soon as possible?

How do I deliver the records to the new squadron? I believe this is required under 39-2.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[SARDOC]

First, Good Luck with the move. 

I'm reading this as that you are a Cadet, since you are consulting with the Cadet Command Staff, as well as the Squadron Commander.  Please let them know, as early and often.

If you are not a Cadet and an actual Senior Member, a new safety officer MUST be appointed by the squadron commander as this is a required position.  If this is a cadet safety officer, work with the cadet leadership to see how they want to proceed, you may be asked to train your replacement. 

It's okay to hand carry your membership record, to the new unit, that being said, your current unit should make a copy for their purposes until your transfer actually goes through.

You shouldn't actually need to do or coordinate with your prospective unit, other than to find out which unit you'll actually like better, they all have a different focus. 

[Callsign._Hyena]

I'm reading this as that you are a Cadet, since you are consulting with the Cadet Command Staff, as well as the Squadron Commander.

Yes, I am a cadet at my current unit.

[TheSkyHornet]

I wouldn't overthink most of this.

The simple summary:
1.  You are transferring to a new unit (yet to be determined) circa July (in 7 months).
2.  You are currently the Cadet Safety Officer for your unit.


So to help provide some clarity/suggestion:

1.  Figure out what unit(s) you're looking to transfer to. Understand that you may end up in whatever duty position, if any, that they offer to you. It's not a guarantee. Be mindful that they don't even know you. BUT how you start that conversation now, and how mature you make it, will play heavily into what they intend for you to do job-wise once you transfer in. Do they have any administrative support functions that you could remotely help with before transferring?

2.  As the current Cadet Safety Officer, your role will probably be looking for a replacement (not required per regulation, but likely preferred). Talk with your unit about how they want to proceed with this. Start training your replacement; although, 6 months might be extensive (too long). Maybe spend the last few months of your time there training that replacement, with the last month being more of a supervisory/shadow position to see if they can do it on their own without you. Honestly, most Cadet Safety Officers I have come across don't do a whole lot anyway. Not to knock the position, but I don't know the unit, so I don't know how involved this is. I assume North Tampa is fairly large given the locale, so maybe it's a pretty invested position.

Ask your unit if they maintain any paper records. My unit does not. It's entirely electronic. So if you were to transfer out, I'd just send you on your way. If you want some MEMO write-up for an award or something that you don't have access to, I probably won't compile a file for you; you just need to ask. Most units aren't even keeping records outside of whatever is in eServices. They aren't really required to maintain any of that stuff on paper, and there really isn't much beyond eServices that has any value.

Honestly, I'd just send an email to the Deputy Commander for Cadets and Cadet Commander, and your immediate boss, and explain to them that your family is planning to relocate to wherever in July. You want to say in CAP and intend to transfer to a new unit. You want to continue to fulfill your current role as Cadet Safety Officer but need to find a replacement.

[Paul Kretschmar]

Squadron Commander here.  If you were to email me that your family is moving into the area in a few months, I would welcome you to come to visit our meetings when you get here, to see if you would be a good fit and for you to see if our squadron would be a good fit for you (squadrons can be very different in their focus and week to week format). 

I would not start you on working any cadet position before you actually moved and visited (we require three visits even for transfers).  Transfers are initiated by the gaining squadron, no one else can transfer a cadet into a squadron.  I would contact your current squadron CC to get their take.  In my wing, transfers from out of state require Wing CC approval.

My squadron does not maintain paper records.  If it isn't in eServices already, start working on getting it into eServices now, don't expect the gaining squadron to take your file folder and do that for you.

But definitely let your current squadron know your plans ASAP.  Unless you are in a squadron with toxic leadership, there is no downside to letting your Cadet and Senior leadership know right now.

[Eclipse]

(we require three visits even for transfers)

In my wing, transfers from out of state require Wing CC approval.

I personally consider both of the above, especially the former, as best-practices, but neither is supported by the regulations. There is no process for, or requirement of, orientation visits, membership boards, etc., for transfers. Unless there is a an open disciplinary issue, all members in good standing can transfer between units as they see fit.

[Shuman 14]

(we require three visits even for transfers)

In my wing, transfers from out of state require Wing CC approval.

I personally consider both of the above, especially the former, as best-practices, but neither is supported by the regulations. There is no process for, or requirement of, orientation visits, membership boards, etc., for transfers. Unless there is a an open disciplinary issue, all members in good standing can transfer between units as they see fit.

I concur, it would seem silly to hold up a Member's transfer, who has no issues, soley so some Colonel can "approve" what should be an almost automatic process.

[PHall]

In my wing, transfers from out of state require Wing CC approval.

Interesting, is there an Approved Wing Supplement to CAPR 39-2 stating this requirement because there nothing in Paragraph 1.11 Transfer of Membership in CAPR 39-2, Civil Air Patrol Membership, dated 28 December 2022 that requires this.

[Callsign._Hyena]

For the record (Reading some of you guy's comments)

I am not looking for a staff position at my new unit right when I transfer. If there is an opportunity in the future I would likely apply though. If it helps it is going to be in Virgina Wing.

I'm not sure what defines a large or small squadron, but North Tampa-Lutz I'd say is not too large but we are not small either.

I don't know if my squadron carries paper records but I would assume we probably do or at least did considering (from what I am aware of,) North Tampa-Lutz is a fairly old squadron.

Happy New Year, everyone.

[SARDOC]

Moving from Florida to Virginia.  If I'm betting that means you're going to Northern Virginia or Tidewater (Virginia Beach/Norfolk)  If going to to Northern Virginia, you may affiliate with a squadron in either the Virginia Wing or the National Capital Wing.

If going to the Tidewater area, for which I'm intimately familiar, most of the squadrons are very similar.  Any unit you choose will be a fine choice.  They are all very strong programs.  Good luck.

[Dustoff17]

Squadron Commander here. .. (we require three visits even for transfers). 
.. In my wing, transfers from out of state require Wing CC approval.

My squadron does not maintain paper records...

-Other than you're the Commander and "it's my way or the highway", by what justification do you hold back a Cadet's promotion by almost half of the norm?

-OP, I suspect that if this Wing Commander micro-manages Cadet transfers to this level, there are WAY more issues in the Wing than we can discuss here.

-Do you upload every CAPF 60-90, SDAs, and rubric forms too?

[PHall]

Squadron Commander here. .. (we require three visits even for transfers). 
.. In my wing, transfers from out of state require Wing CC approval.

My squadron does not maintain paper records...

-Other than you're the Commander and "it's my way or the highway", by what justification do you hold back a Cadet's promotion by almost half of the norm?

-OP, I suspect that if this Wing Commander micro-manages Cadet transfers to this level, there are WAY more issues in the Wing than we can discuss here.

-Do you upload every CAPF 60-90, SDAs, and rubric forms too?

Cadets promoting every 56 days in the minimum not a schedule and it's the squadron commander's call if the cadet is ready for their next promotion. Promotions, cadet or senior are not automatic.

[Dustoff17]

Cadets promoting every 56 days in the minimum not a schedule and it's the squadron commander's call if the cadet is ready for their next promotion. Promotions, cadet or senior are not automatic.

I don't think anyone has argued the Commander HAS to promote in 56 days. However, if they choose not to, the CAPF 60-90 is required. My guess is that this wasn't done, otherwise this Cadet would know the reason for the 3-week, immature back-stabbing.

In THIS case, the Commander has changed the "minimum" to 77 days for no justifiable reason. Childish IMHO.

I know this thread is old but this has IG complaint all over it. And not a Wing complaint...one right up to NHQ!

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

I don't see anything about promotions in his post. He said POSITION, which I took to mean he would not have a new transfer slotted into a cadet staff position until they had completed three visits and officially transferred to the squadron. Nothing warranting an IG complaint there. Commanders are free to appoint and rescind staff positions as they see fit.

[jeders]

Cadets promoting every 56 days in the minimum not a schedule and it's the squadron commander's call if the cadet is ready for their next promotion. Promotions, cadet or senior are not automatic.

I don't think anyone has argued the Commander HAS to promote in 56 days. However, if they choose not to, the CAPF 60-90 is required. My guess is that this wasn't done, otherwise this Cadet would know the reason for the 3-week, immature back-stabbing.

Can you please point to where the OP ever mentioned promotions?

OP, I suspect that if this Wing Commander micro-manages Cadet transfers to this level, there are WAY more issues in the Wing than we can discuss here.

You do realize that Paul and Hyena are not in the same squadron/wing, right? Paul was just giving his response from the perspective of a squadron commander, not saying that he was OPs gaining/losing squadron commander.

I know this thread is old but this has IG complaint all over it. And not a Wing complaint...one right up to NHQ!

While 3 months is far from a CAPTalk necro record, the site rules do still require that something of substance be added to the conversation. In this case, you immediately started trying to flame people for things that they literally never said. I feel like your posting is being heavily influenced by your personal experiences with CAP and that you may need to step away from the keyboard for a moment.

[Dustoff17]

OK, you're correct the OP didn't mention promotions. However, it's not a leap to put two and two together. Jeders, you're reading just as much into my post as you accuse me of doing.

I feel this DOES, in fact, add to the conversation.

To me this is simple math:
It's pretty easy to see that, if a Cadet has to visit three times before they can join, this is approximately 21 days of "limbo". If an active Cadet is promoting on time (56) day minimum and a Commander delays by 21 days or adds these days to the "min" time, it affects promotion.

If the OP hasn't considered this, they should. And this delay, and reason behind it, would need to be reflected on a feedback form.

[PHall]

I will say this again since it didn't seem to stick the first time.

The 56 days between cadet promotions is the MINIMUM, it is not a schedule.
And since it is not a schedule there is no way you can be late...
It is not a problem if a cadet only promotes three or four times a year.

[jeders]

OK, you're correct the OP didn't mention promotions. However, it's not a leap to put two and two together.

It actually is kind of a leap. The discussion at hand is one of transfers, not promotions. If a cadet moves across the country and transfers there membership, they are likely already well outside the 56 day minimum, making an additional few weeks (one time) to ensure that the member is a good fit with the squadron and vice versa is not going to have a significant impact on the cadet's trajectory. Now, we can certainly discuss whether or not this additional 3 weeks for transfers is necessary, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion topic and should be it's own thread.

Jeders,

Little 'j'

you're reading just as much into my post as you accuse me of doing.

I'm really not, I'm reading only as much as what has been written.

It's pretty easy to see that, if a Cadet has to visit three times before they can join, this is approximately 21 days of "limbo". If an active Cadet is promoting on time (56) day minimum and a Commander delays by 21 days or adds these days to the "min" time, it affects promotion.

A one-time addition of 3 meetings, which may be less than 21 days and which also may be accomplished during short term visits before moving to the new area, for a cadet who is most likely already outside the 56 day minimum (which almost no cadet consistently hits) by weeks or months is not going to significantly affect their trajectory.

As for value to the topic at hand, there is none as this is a completely unrelated conversation. Since the original topic was already well concluded and since we are just driving further and further off topic, I'm going to go ahead and lock this for now.