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Encampment stories

Started by Kal, March 28, 2008, 12:24:31 AM

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LSThiker

Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2014, 08:52:52 PM
You know you're quoting from draft documents that are new and not yet in force, right?

Things change and evolve, and people have to adjust.

Make sure the commandant and encampment commander are on the same page in regards to your mentoring level.

It has not created a problem yet.  In fact, I seem to get a lot of compliments on my interaction with the cadets and how I mentor them.  For the encampments that I have attended, the senior TAC officer has also recommended the mentoring.

But since you did assert that is not the role of a TAC officer, what is your citation to the proper role of the TAC officer at encampment?

C/Cool

Last year's encampment, staff couldn't find on of their cadets. They checked everywhere and finally they heard something and opened a locker and he was standing there naked trying to change his clothes... He hollered "don't look at me, I'm naked".
I'm sorry, did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?

Eclipse

#522
Quote from: LSThiker on January 18, 2014, 09:12:35 PMBut since you did assert that is not the role of a TAC officer, what is your citation to the proper role of the TAC officer at encampment?

My CP master badge and my 11-encampment ribbons, 8 of which were as the activity commander.

Up until the draft encampment guide, there essentially was no definition of "TAC".  My assertion is based on successful experience coupled
with consultation with any number of other encampment commanders, staff, and national SMEs.

The draft assets to refer to them as "Training officers", which would also insinuate that there needs to be a level of experience
and knowledge there that is beyond most 1st year / 1st time senior members at an encampment, so I'm not sure how that is
going to be reconciled.  Hopefully through some specific training for the TO's themselves, outside the activity.

Previous to the draft, "TAC" could mean anything from "Teach / Advise / Counsel" to "Tactical" and anything in between.
The best-course was to pair two TACs, one "new" one "seasoned" and teach the to be generally "like the wind", meaning
the "see all, and say little".

Far too many new senior members involved with cadets, especially those with prior military, want to step in and start directly
training, which in an encampment is not appropriate except for specific situations where an adult's skill needs to be imparted.
Something lost at many of these larger activities is that the training is for all the cadets, staff to student, and adults being too
directly involved with them robs the line staff of their own learning environment.


"That Others May Zoom"

LSThiker

Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2014, 10:12:12 PM
My CP master badge and my 11-encampment ribbons, 8 of which were as the activity commander.

Fallacy:  appeal to authority. 

QuoteUp until the draft encampment guide, there essentially was no definition of "TAC".  My assertion is based on successful experience coupled
with consultation with any number of other encampment commanders, staff, and national SMEs.
opinion

I helped shorten that sentence down for you.  So if there was "essentially no definition of TAC" then you cannot assert that is not the role of a TAC officer.  It may not be a role in your opinion, but in my opinion it is a role. 

thank you for your opinion.  I have noted it, but have rejected it.  Moving on.

Eclipse

Yes, by all means dismiss informed experience when it conflicts with your opinion.

That seems to be a mantra for many members.

"That Others May Zoom"

LSThiker

Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2014, 11:00:33 PM
Yes, by all means dismiss informed experience when it conflicts with your opinion.

That seems to be a mantra for many members.

No, I have not dismissed your informed experience.  I have dismissed your opinion just as much as you have dismissed my opinion.  Neither of us have a citation from an authoritative source (read as NHQ approved publication) that defines the role of the TAC officer.  Therefore, regardless of experience, they remain as opinions.  The only evidence that both of us have is anecdotal evidence, which is at best unverifiable and subjective. 

If you think I should bow down to you because  "My CP master badge and my 11-encampment ribbons, 8 of which were as the activity commander.", then I do not know what to tell you other than I do not accept the "argument from authority".

Have a nice day

Luis R. Ramos

LST,

And what is your experience?

If you have none or no CP program experience, and no CP track, I will bow down to the BTDT.  As a matter of fact, because he has been in there...

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

LSThiker

#527
Quote from: flyer333555 on January 18, 2014, 11:57:37 PM
LST,

And what is your experience?

If you have none or no CP program experience, and no CP track, I will bow down to the BTDT.  As a matter of fact, because he has been in there...

Flyer

Master CP with about 15 years experience in CP.  All of which does not matter.  Claims stand or fall by their own merit, not by the person making those claims.  Even if he had 40 years and I had 4 years, there is still no authoritative basis for our opinions.  As such they remain as opinions.  Being in a program longer does not make a claim true unless you have physical evidence to back up those claims.  Simply saying "I am right because I have X, Y, Z" is simply not an argument.

ol'fido

The role of the TAC or Training Officer is one of the more difficult ones to fill. The TAC(for brevities sake) has to walk a fine line between being a "totem pole" standing around and not doing anything except as someone said "making sure the cadets don't die" and the "eager beaver" who jumps in to every situation as soon as he sees the cadet staff having difficulty or being indecisive. The TAC has to be willing to let the cadets make their mistakes and make them in such a way that they learn from them. If they work through their problem without needing assistance, the TAC should note the situation and query the cadets about it at a later time to make sure that they absorbed the lesson that the problem was teaching them. If they cannot work through the problem, the TAC should help them work through the problem solving process not give them the answer or take over the situation. It takes a bit of experience to know when to let the situation develop or to provide assistance. The only time a TAC should directly intervene is when it involves health, safety, sanitation, or cadet protection issues including hazing. All other seniors who are not directly working with cadets should work through the Commandant of Cadets if they have issues or questions about things the cadets are doing or not doing.

At our encampment, the scheduling framework for 2014 was done before the end of the 2013 encampment. There will be tweeks and changes but for the most part our schedules vary little from year to year. The longevity of some of the staff accounts for some of this. The fact that we have been using the same venue for several years also helps standardize our schedules. In fact a lot of the admin work is "plug and play" and involves mostly changing dates on forms. Every day our operations section puts out a schedule and incident action plan for the next day. It is usually ready by 1600hrs the day before if not sooner.

I remember encampments years ago where we had nearly 300 "call" visits in a week and anytime you walked into the med bay there were several cadets lying around in various states of "puny". Fortunately, we have made changes to the program that make the medical needs of the encampment extremely minimal. We have not had a med bay in several years and have not had any medical issues that lasted more than a couple of hours at the most. We have had cadets get hurt and go to the ER and we have had cadets go home for medical reasons but not very many and almost none in the last 5-8 years.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

LSThiker

Quote from: ol'fido on January 19, 2014, 02:26:05 AM
The role of the TAC or Training Officer is one of the more difficult ones to fill. The TAC(for brevities sake) has to walk a fine line between being a "totem pole" standing around and not doing anything except as someone said "making sure the cadets don't die" and the "eager beaver" who jumps in to every situation as soon as he sees the cadet staff having difficulty or being indecisive.

snipped to save space

All other seniors who are not directly working with cadets should work through the Commandant of Cadets if they have issues or questions about things the cadets are doing or not doing.

I agree 100%.  I think it is a disservice to the cadets when encampment commanders put new SM with no experience in these positions.  The TAC should be well-versed on appropriate methods of mentoring (which includes letting cadets make their own mistakes) and know when to indirectly involve themselves.  This was my interactions with TACs in the military.  They knew when to directly intervene, when to pull you said and guide to the correct direction, and when to just let you make your own mistake.

When I was in ROTC (scary phrase I know), I went against the direction of my TAC officer (O-4).  The O-4 pulled me aside and told me I should not waste our time having a class on crew-served weapons, call for artillery, and cleaning the barracks.  Our platoon had two cadets that did exactly that in the AD Army, so I disagreed and explained why I felt those were necessary.  He looked at me with disapproval and simply said "it is your call".  In the end it paid off as we took best platoon in those two events plus got high remarks for the condition of our barracks.  It was a major gamble and he was more than willing to let me learn my mistake. 

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2014, 08:52:52 PM
You know you're quoting from draft documents that are new and not yet in force, right?


And you're quoting....what, exactly, when you claim otherwise?
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

Eclipse

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 19, 2014, 05:57:01 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2014, 08:52:52 PM
You know you're quoting from draft documents that are new and not yet in force, right?


And you're quoting....what, exactly, when you claim otherwise?

Already answered above, I'm not quoting anything, nor is it necessary.

"That Others May Zoom"

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on January 19, 2014, 05:57:01 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2014, 08:52:52 PM
You know you're quoting from draft documents that are new and not yet in force, right?


And you're quoting....what, exactly, when you claim otherwise?

Withdrawn. I just caught up with the thread. Badge, ribbons, etc. Got it. You're quoting from nothing, finding fault with somebody who quoted from something, citing your experiential opinion as out weighing somebody else's.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

AACS Cadet21

OK, so I have another one:

  So I wake up at like 2:00 am and hear my battle-buddy muttering, "is founded upon respect fuhr and loyal coop................" and then, "w-while putting aside personal respec......"     At the time I was mad that'd I'd been woken up but now it's just funny! Even more so because she was wrong! ;D  Also, I woke up one night doing To-the-Rear in my sleep, almost fell of the top bunk  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D That would've hurt...  :o

ol'fido

So, you would have learned the difference between being "dismissed" and "falling out". ;)
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

AACS Cadet21

Quote from: ol'fido on January 27, 2014, 04:23:59 AM
So, you would have learned the difference between being "dismissed" and "falling out". ;)

Exactly.  ;D ;) ;D
Actually I almost did fall out of closing one night due to heat exauhstion...  ;D

Cindi

Back in 1968, Oregon Wing had our encampment at Fairchild Air Force Base, a SAC base then, located near Spokane, Washington. Our transportation from Portland was on some C-119s, the old Flying Boxcars or Flying Coffins as they were known then. Cadets were seated against the sides of the plane with the luggage in the middle so everyone could see everybody else.
The flight was very turbulent and riding in the Flying Boxcar was very noisy. There was a garbage can in the back of the plane. My buddy was near the back acting like he was trying to sleep with a spoon sticking out of his flight jacket. My job was to act like I was really getting sick from all the turbulence, which was not that hard to do. I had a barf bag prepared in advance with beef stew in it. As I saw several people looking at me, I decided it was time. Grabbing the barf bag and covering my mouth, I put on a good show of barfing my guts out. When I was finished, I handed the barf bag to the person next to me to hand from one person to another down the line to be put in the garbage can in the back of the plane. It seemed all eyes were on the barf bag and as it made its way to my buddy he said thanks and took his spoon out of his flight jacket and proceeded to eat the beef stew in the barf bag. Seeing him eat that barf (beef stew), several cadets on the other side of the plane just let go and I can still remember that awful smell coming from our barf encrusted luggage.

FlyTiger77

Quote from: Cindi on January 27, 2014, 05:22:49 PM
It seemed all eyes were on the barf bag and as it made its way to my buddy he said thanks and took his spoon out of his flight jacket and proceeded to eat the beef stew in the barf bag. Seeing him eat that barf (beef stew), several cadets on the other side of the plane just let go and I can still remember that awful smell coming from our barf encrusted luggage.

Sounds similar to the opening scene of a great movie from the '70s or '80s. "C'mon, hogs, chow's on me!" (Can anyone name the movie?)
JACK E. MULLINAX II, Lt Col, CAP

ol'fido

Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Garibaldi

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on January 27, 2014, 09:31:19 PM
Quote from: Cindi on January 27, 2014, 05:22:49 PM
It seemed all eyes were on the barf bag and as it made its way to my buddy he said thanks and took his spoon out of his flight jacket and proceeded to eat the beef stew in the barf bag. Seeing him eat that barf (beef stew), several cadets on the other side of the plane just let go and I can still remember that awful smell coming from our barf encrusted luggage.

Sounds similar to the opening scene of a great movie from the '70s or '80s. "C'mon, hogs, chow's on me!" (Can anyone name the movie?)
The Great Santini.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things